CONNECT WITH WAYNE:
Tanner:
This week on the show, Wayne Washington from Grow Company Profits joins me to discuss different ways that we can keep an eye on the overall health of our businesses, how to keep employees engaged and how to implement changes within our operations. Wayne is a really awesome guy. You’re going to love this episode.
Welcome to the show and I’m really excited to have you go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience.
Wayne:
Well, my name is Wayne Washington, and first of all, Tanner, I’m thrilled to be here. I enjoy talking about some of the things I do, but what is it that I do? I basically show CEOs how much money they’re leaving on the table when their strategy, culture and operations are misaligned. Now, a CEO will know I’m talking to them if they’re experiencing disengaged employees, unnecessary complexity and hidden costs, although they’re still growing, it’s harder than it used to be. And it’s not as much fun as it used to. Those are the people I’m talking to.
Tanner:
So, how did you get started in this lane? Can you tell us your story?
Wayne:
Sure. Believe it or not, it goes all the way back to the eighth grade and I’m not going to take you step by step through that, but I have, I’ve always had a love for math. And in eighth grade, I won a math award when I graduated from eighth grade, that translated into an engineering degree. Got an electric engineering degree from a small school called Ohio Northern University. I found my love for computers and engineering that in turn turned into project management that in turn turned into facility management and that in turn led to what I call myself now, an operations guru. A lot of people refer to me as the doctor of operations. So, that’s where my background comes from. I worked operations in the trenches. Hands-On with the people, supervising the people. And then finally, I opened up my business. I ran a business of facility management from an operational standpoint. That’s where I come from.
I’ve learned how to balance my work and my play.
Tanner:
So, that’s a pretty interesting story. And I always find it interesting, you know, how people start their career and you know, the process they go through to get to where they are now. And you know, you moved around a lot. It seems like you were moving up the ladder the whole time. What do you think contributed to your success?
Wayne:
I’d have to really look back. And when I think about our this one underlying principle, it really comes to my mind and I’ve learned how to balance my work and my play. You know I work hard and I play hard because I need to have that release. That’d be able to go out and put work aside, turn it off and enjoy the family, enjoy the friends and so forth like that. So I feel I’ve been able to do that successfully with over my career. I think the second thing, when I think about it, comes down to two books that I’ve read that really have become the foundation for my mindset of who I am and what I do. And the first one is a book called the E-Myth revisited by a guy named Michael Gerber. And what he talks about is established systems and your business and teach people to run those systems.
And the second book that that really has really shaped my thinking is the Blue Ocean Strategy. You know, how do you find a need that’s not being met. A need that the marketplace needs that is not being met right now, meet that need and market the heck out of it. And people come to you because you’re the first one there and you’ll stay there. So those two books really have come into play. They helped me basically what I’ve put together, a system of systems is how all the businesses I run, we’ve run on systems. We teach people how to run the systems and I teach people how to run the systems, to make their business successful. What I basically say, I teach you how to sustain profitability to fund managed growth. So, you know, in a nutshell, that’s what I feel has contributed to my success.
Tanner:
Yeah. I love that. And I’ve read the E-Myth and that’s an excellent book. I haven’t checked out the other one but I definitely will. I really liked what you said about working hard and playing hard because you know, all too often, we get in this, what most people call the hustle, right? You got to work 24/7, and nothing else matters other than your success. Right. And, and I don’t think it needs to be that way, you know, maybe the first few years if that, but you’re just gonna burn yourself out and that’s ultimately going to contribute to the detriment of your own success.
Wayne:
Fair enough. I mean, it could contribute to burnout.
If we consistently week after week complete 90% of our schedule each week, we will achieve sustain profitability to fund our managed growth.
Tanner:
Yeah, no question. So, Wayne the topic for today is keeping score to confidently know your company’s overall health. When it comes to that, what are some important KPIs that businesses should be tracking?
Wayne:
I liked what you phrase it, but I’m going to have to, I want to try to position it a different way. It’s not the fact that you’re just keeping score, because I think most people, most companies in some way or another keep score, but it’s how you’re keeping score and what you’re keeping score of. By that I mean, most people, most companies, I’d say 90% of the companies in the country keep their score based on their profit and loss statement, their P and L. They identify what’s happening from their bottom line. And for me, that’s a lagging indicator. In other words, what you’re learning today happened somewhere in the past 30 days. So you don’t have, you can’t change it. It’s almost like you’re riding, you’re driving your business, looking in the rear view mirror. So it’s hard to make adjustments.
I look at what I call meeting indicators. And to me, the best mini indicator is how well you utilizing your resources. So resource utilization, is the major component of it. But how you affectively and officially and schedule your resources is the key. And when I’m saying resources, I’m talking about your manpower, your money, your management, and your materials. All four of them are resources. Every company has. How do you schedule them and use them? So to me, when you bring it down to a KPI, for me, only one measure matters. And that measure is how well did we complete our schedule this week? We have a scheduled work of all the work activities. Our project activities, our work activities, our asset management activities are all on the same schedule. If we consistently week after week complete 90% of our schedule each week, we will achieve sustain profitability to fund our managed growth.
So that’s the only way I look at everybody on the team, look at that measure. So therefore you have to have a common scoreboard so everybody can see what the score is. It’s almost like going to a, just for example, when my son was growing up, he started playing Peewee football and Peewee soccer, you know, at five and six years old, they tell you don’t keep score. We’re just teaching the fundamentals. But every person in that stadium knew what the score was, even though it was a practice game. So we have to keep score and the participants need to know what the score is.
So you’re taking the resources of manpower, money management and materials, and you’re maximizing the assets of people, places, processes, and purchases.
Tanner:
Yeah. I mean, no question. I mean, if you’re not keeping score, then there’s really, your eyes aren’t on the prize at that point. Right. And you’re kind of just running around with, like a chicken with its head cut off. Right? in your experience, what are companies usually misaligned on when it comes to keeping score?
Wayne:
Okay. I think I want, well, let me go back to one of the things I said earlier, when we talk about the concept of culture, strategy and operations. And I think most organizations view them as individual standalone pillars. But the truth of it is they’re all interdependent and interrelated because they share the same resources. The same resources that do your culture . The same resources that do your strategy or the same resources that basically operate your operations. So therefore what you see happens in organizations is he who yells the loudest, or whoever has the most clout wins because you have those cultures of operational strategies. They’re competing with each other. They’ll like headbutting each other and they’re out of a line. So when I talk about what gets misaligned most, it’s the strategy, culture, and operations. I’m gonna take it a step further, but let’s talk about business 1 0 1.
When you’re talking about, when a company’s in business, what are they trying to do? You’re trying to take the resources you have at hand and maximize the long-term value of the assets you have. So you’re taking the resources of manpower, money management and materials, and you’re maximizing the assets of people, places, processes, and purchases. I talk about processes. That’s your technology, your computers, all the infrastructure. Your places that’s, you’re building, your infrastructure. Your people are your employees and your purchases, your capital purchases. There’s things you need to do to run the business. How do you take your resources to maximize those assets? All right. So when I talk about aligning culture, strategy and operations, I need you to, for second, to visualize a Venn diagram, you know what a three was in a stack, you put strategy and one circle, you put operation in another circle and you put culture in a third circle.
And how those, when you look at that, there are seven different ways how your culture strategy and operations can be aligned. When you look at that Venn diagram, there are seven different distinct spots in there. Where you are in that circle, in that alignment, tells how you run your business. For intance, if you have a strategy heavy company, you’re gonna more than likely have a top down, were the boss,
we make the decisions, you do what we say. That doesn’t always work that way. If you have a culture driven organization, it’s can we all get along? Let’s not have any issues. Let’s make sure so-and-so is happy. If you have an operations driven organization, hit the numbers, let’s be precise. Bring those numbers down. So however your organization is driven, one of those three is probably going to dominate most companies. My thinking is in order to have a operationally excellent company, you have to be in that sweet spot. That spot right in the center, where you’re sharing your resources effectively and efficiently between those three areas.
So let me take that one step further. If I can Tanner. When you’re out of alignment. When you’re not operating in that sweet spot in those other six alignments, you’re leaving money on the table each and every day, because misalignment is value that’s being drained from your company because you’re not using your resources efficiently. And to me, those value drains show up in three ways. Number one, they show up as disengaged employees. You know, employees who tuned out, checked out, they are surfing the internet, surfing the web they’re checking for a new job. They’re calling their friends and so forth like this. The second way is unnecessary complexity. And I call these like the layers, It’s bottlenecks, paralysis of analysis. Now it’s hard to get decisions done effectively and efficiently. So you’re losing time and money while you’re doing that. And the third way is hidden costs, which I call profits dealers.
I mean that they’re stealing your profits by delays, your workflow doesn’t work well. You have all these independent business applications that don’t talk to each other. You duplicate when you have to take things from one system and put it in another system just to function. All those are types of things that an operational efficient company does not do. But if you’re not in alignment, that happens on a routine basis. And most companies have come to learn that I’ve come to a realize that and they don’t really know what’s existing. So therefore I call them sometimes stealth value drains, because people are unaware of that they occur. So long story short, but that’s how, I mean, that’s how I see most companies are misaligned because they’re not operating in that sweet spot and therefore value drains results.
You don’t hire disengaged employees. They evolve over time.
Tanner:
That was really excellent. Wayne. I was able to picture that Venn diagram really vividly. And I think you did an excellent job on explaining that you and I agree with you and the way that you look at it, I think those three things really do suck profits out of the business. Of those three things. What do you think makes the biggest impact when it’s out of alignment?
Wayne:
Disengaged employees by far. You know, your people is your biggest expense. Your people make up your culture. You mean when think of the term culture, culture basically is the beliefs and the behaviors your employees bring to work each and every day. So when your employees become disengaged, that’s productivity you’re losing. So, you know, when people ask me the question, when you asked that question you asked me, what’s the most, a lot of them will say, well, how do I get rid of disengaged employees? Well, I guess the way I look at a Tanner, don’t let it start to begin with. You don’t hire disengaged employees. They evolve over time. Does that make sense what I’m saying?
In most companies, up to over 50% of employees are disengaged… because of the way their leadership team shapes that environment.
Tanner:
Yeah, of course.
Steve:
Okay. So, therefore to me, what I’ve found is most employees tune out because of the way the work environment is that’s driven by the leadership.
There’s a lack of collaboration inclusion by the leadership. There’s a lack of a clear vision or a clear strategy by the leadership. There’s lack of clear expectations. So a lot of times when an employee is a working you know, they are operating in the dark, they’re not sure. So they don’t rock the boat, they just tune out because those things aren’t there. But the biggest thing I find from a standpoint about leadership standpoint or where leadership involvement is the leadership itself. You know, how many people leave their job because they can’t get along with their boss. They don’t like their boss. They don’t like their management. That’s why most people start looking for jobs. Because the boss is either aggressive or passive. He’s disorganized, he’s narcissistic. He refuses to change. And when he, if your style is not one of those I just read, and you have a hard time interfacing with them, what are you going to do? Are you going to give your all, are you going to give 100%? No, you’re going to check out. So that’s why I say that’s the biggest one. Multiply that by all your employees. I think it was somewhere in a Harvard business review. I was reading or seeing it somewhere that it says in most companies up to over 50% of employees are disengaged because to some level, either to a little bit or completely because of the way their leadership team shapes that environment. Does that make sense?
Tanner:
Yeah, that does. That makes complete sense. And I’d like to just add on to that. I can’t remember where I saw it, but I think it was Microsoft released a study about employees post pandemic. I don’t know if you’d consider right now post pandemic or not, but there was a report that the majority of the workforce intends on switching jobs this year. So, I mean, that’s staggering. Right? And I would bet it’s because they’re disengaged
Wayne:
And, you know, they could be going for a bigger opportunity. That’s true. But if they didn’t get the opportunity at the company they’re at, they become disengaged. So to me, it all intertwines with each other. I agree with what you’re saying.
Most companies, they don’t include their employees in the overall decision-making process.
Tanner:
Yeah, definitely. So, you know, what are some good ways to keep employees engaged?
Wayne:
I think as I said, the best way to try to keep employees engaged is don’t let them become disengaged. But I think you look at most companies, they don’t include their employees in the overall decision-making process. And I’m not saying decision-making on what we’re gonna do it for profits, but just because you’re at the top, you’re losing valuable input from the people who work with your customers, the people who interface with your customers. The people who know what’s going on the street. So when you start making decisions for your strategy and you start making plans for your budgets for this year and next year, and you cut that wealth of knowledge out, people don’t like that. They want to have a say in what they’re doing today. The good old days of, you know, I’m the boss, do what I say that doesn’t happen anymore.
If that’s the approach most companies have. I doubt them to be strongly competitive over the long run or should get these newer, younger people are coming in the workforce because they want to have meaning. They want to have value. They want to contribute to some of what they are doing. They want to know what they’re doing fits into the workplace. How am I contributing to that end result? And if you can’t do that, they start pulling away. They start creating their own value within their job. So, as I said before, a lot of it comes down to leadership behavior. How we keep people included, how we keep people involved, how we keep people informed. How do people know whether they’re doing a good job or not? It should not be hard. If you have a strategy to go to ABC, you should be able to break that strategy down into we to do objective one, two, and three.
And then we also, in order to do the objective one, two, and three, we need to do four, five or six as projects or work projects. All right. If those are the work projects we’re going to do, what is my role? What is my responsibility? What is my expectation? So when those things are communicated upfront in a, from a scoreboard standpoint, you know where you stand, you know what you have to do, you know when you dropped a ball or not. Now is the beginning of football season and all the pre-season games are going to start coming on. We start listening to football players. And they talk about the team. I don’t want to let the team down. I want to make sure my teammate is holding me accountable. I’m holding them accountable. We’re all in this together. That’s not the environment in business. It seems like its every man for themselves. So you wonder why companies struggle being sustaining profit. You got to number one, get that team in place and number two, organize your organization or align your organization. I know I talked for a little bit Tanner and I hope it’s making sense, but if you can’t tell, I’m passionate about what I do.
You need to have an atmosphere of collaboration inclusion. We’re all in this together. We’re all working in the same direction.
Tanner:
Oh no, I’m following you completely. And I enjoy the passion and I enjoy everything that you’re sharing. I think it’s all really, really valuable information. And I always find operations management really interesting. Do you have any advice on how to properly identify a problem in a system? And in addition to that, how to implement a solution to that without upsetting any subordinates?
Wayne:
Well, yes I do. And I want to couch that into the same context we talked earlier, when you talk about strategy, culture and operations, you can’t single out operations and do something that affects operations that’s not going to affect strategy and culture. So to answer what you’re saying is, you got to take a holistic view of what you’re trying to do. So from an overall company standpoint, to me, there’s three things that you have to have in place now in order to do that. You need to have an atmosphere of collaboration inclusion. We’re all in this together. We’re all working in the same direction. So you have that set up as a baseline. Now it’s easier to get things done. It’s easier to have discussions. It’s easier to have buy-in. If an employee was part of creating a process and procedures for the job he works on every day, he’s going to take ownership of that.
He’s going to do that. So the collaboration inclusion is one part from a culture standpoint that helps get things gear. The second thing is you gotta have some kind of data driven strategy process. How do we make our decisions rather? Are we making our decisions, If we’re going to this place from a strategy standpoint, there are certain decisions that we need to make. How do you get those decisions down to the lowest level of the company that needs to make those decisions and have data to support those decisions? So we’re not making decisions by the seat of our pants. And the third area is what I call a scalable agile operations platform. When you started, everybody, when they started the business, they had this idea and they ran the business by themselves. So they had their own operations that they could do.
A lot of companies don’t have an operations platform. Don’t have an operations plan. They assume people know what to do.
Step one, step two, step three. As they grow, they bring more people on board. A lot of companies don’t have an operations platform. Don’t have an operations plan. They assume people know what to do. New people come in. They have a lot of wasted time trying to get things on board. So when you’re trying to change things, why? Why are we doing this? I’m always used to doing this. If you have a scalable operations platform and people know what they’re doing and why they’re doing it, because they helped in putting the procedures together. It’s easier to make change because they know why. So that’s a long-winded answer. But I think they’re all interrelated. So you just can’t look at changing operations and not pay attention to the culture. Change management is everybody wants to know what’s in it for me. And until most employees know what’s in it for me, they don’t care very much.
Oh, it’s not true they don’t care. Are they giving a hundred percent? Not always. I’m just doing what i’m told. And if it’s easy to make decisions, let me back up. When you talk about the operating platform. Your operating platform is going to make 80% of your daily decisions. Every now and then something unique might come in. And if you teach your employees of 80% of those operating decisions, here are the parameters, here’s the zones you work within, if it goes to this site, you do this, if it goes to this site, you do this. They could make changes on the fly instead of, boss, this is So-And-So what do you want me to do? Boss? How do you want me to do this? You got to get those decisions down to the operating level. So it’s not a simple question, make a change, make people like it. It’s a systematic process. You’ve got to do holistic.
Tanner:
Yeah. And I would just like to emphasize how important systems and processes are. Like you said, you want those decisions to be at the lowest level possible. Not only does it make the manager’s job easier, not having to hold everyone’s hand the whole time, but you’re actually empowering your employees to own their job and know everything about it. And that’s going to make them feel like they’re having an impact because they understand their job better and they know what impact they’re having. And they’re not wasting time asking questions. And you know, if they’re confused all the time, they don’t know what to do. I mean, why would they stay and not to mention, once you try to scale and bring on new people, or if you have turnover and more people come in, I mean, it’s just putting a body in a system and they just do it the same way and you standardize it and it makes everything flow so much better.
Wayne:
Can I give you an example? There was really a turning point in my life that kind of expressed that same thing. Do you mind if I do that?
Tanner:
Yeah. Go ahead.
And I pulled together a team of the most vocal people in the department. Let’s create what we call working rules.
Wayne:
And it goes back to a long time. Back in the nineties, mid nineties, I worked for Mead Johnson Nutrition division here in Evansville, Indiana. So I still stayed in Evansville, but it was that time when outsourcing became the thing. How do we outsource this, outsource that. And I had a facilities group. These are the people who cut the grass, fix the toilets and did the painting. And for the minds of most company, that could be outsourced to anyone. And here I had these guys between the ages of 45 and 60 years old. And most of these guys are thinking about retirement. And you start talking to him about the idea of change.
They don’t want to hear about the idea of change, but what we had to do, we had to create an enemy. An enemy was the outsourcer. How do we become better, faster, and cheaper than that of outsourcer. And I pulled together a team of the most vocal people in the department. Let’s create what we call working rules. How are we going to work with each other? How are we going to interact with each other? How are we going to respect each other? They did it, they drafted it. And they put together these, I think it was eight, six or seven different points, but all 54 people in the department sign is on the wall. So there was this peer pressure to make sure we succeed. Why I brought that up from the story what you were just talking about. They came with ideas on how to save costs. They came up with ideas on how to do things better. And because of those contributions over a three-year period, we reduced our operating budget by roughly around 27%, right about 7% a year. And this was an $18 million budget because of input from the employees. So, I mean, it works. That’s what I called my foundation for a number of years. Collaboration and inclusion. It works.
Tanner:
Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that, Wayne. I think that, you know, we’ve touched on this many times, but, you know, empowering your employees and making them feel like they’re part of the tribe.
Wayne:
Yes.
Tanner:
Sometimes they have better ideas than the executive team. You know, they’re doing the work. They probably have a better idea of how to do it faster and making their job easier. So I think it’s important to definitely consider any input that they have.
Wayne:
And to add on to that last thing you said that, that they contribute… too many times leadership or management ego gets in the way. They’re the boss. I should have all the answers. You know what I mean? And once you get that mindset changed, that you can get help. You do need help. It goes a lot easier.
When you systematically sustain profitability and fund managed growth, you don’t need venture capitalists.
Tanner:
Yeah, no question Wayne. So what would you say your secrets to scale are?
Wayne:
Well, I think when I talk about the concept of secrets of scale, I think it comes down to how do you, I guess the best way to put it, I have in my mind, what I call an aligned buy in system. And what that basically means is how do you have a system that you can systematically sustain profitability and fund managed growth. If you do that, when you systematically sustain profitability and fund managed growth, you don’t need venture capitalists. You don’t need those outside funds coming in. Now, if you have, we’ve seen companies that up to 15% of the operating expenses are wasted, value drains, going down the drain. If you’ve got that 15% going back into your company, reinvest it back in your company, that’s going to help you grow, sustain growth on an ongoing basis. So when I talk about the concept of an aligned buy in system, there are four pillars of that.
Number one, you got to have that company in alignment. In other words, your strategy, culture, and operations all have to be in alignment. Number two, you have to have employee buy-in. Your employees need to be on the same page, rowing in the same direction and going for a common cause. What helps to do that? You know that what I call the working agreements that we use back together, when the employees at Mead Johnson all came together. I now call that the rules of engagement. How do we engage with each other? And that’s to be written and become emphasized where your performance is judged on that. It’s hard to do. So that’s a key part of employee buy-In. The third area is a concept of planning and scheduling. You don’t just show up and you pick out a benny and decide what you’re going to do today.
You got to plan your projects. You got to plan your work. You got to plan your assets, and you gotta have some kind of way to communicate through all the, how do you make sure there’s the resources at the right place at the right time for the right reasons? How do you communicate all of that? So it’s the planning, scheduling, and communication that’s all part of that. And the last thing as part of the aligned buy-in system is keeping score. By that, I mean, where’s our money going? You know, you should have voted to know where your money is going to what resources at what point, at what time that needs to be an air of transparency, and it should be an air of accountability now. Well, one of the things, again, learning, I had to say, I learned a lot when I worked for Mead Johnson years ago, one of the things that we were able to do to help cut our costs back then, if you do cost allocations. If you have X number of square foot that your department utilized X number square foot of their company, you’re allocated so much of that cost.
You’ve got to track the resources, your manpower, your material, your money, and your management.
So you have a role in keeping costs down. If you have work orders, you’re requesting for your department, that other people aren’t requesting, that’s coming from your maintenance budget. My point is when you start making people accountable for the cost, from an overall company standpoint, they start looking out for. I was around back in the days when and telephone system went digital. And then therefore you can company costs to meet records of every call that’s made. When they start putting those records back into the department. Our costs went down one third, because you know, now people could track. I’m calling my mother in New Jersey, or I’m calling my son in Florida. You know, people stop making those personal calls in business because you’re able to track it. Their transparency was there. The same thing works in business. Your resources. You’ve got to track the resources, your manpower, your material, your money, and your management. I mean, all of those together from an aligned buy-in system, it is what I will call the keys I see to scale. Of course you have to have some kind of system to scale. You have to touch all four of those areas.
Tanner:
Yeah. That’s really good stuff, Wayne. And you know, I think that I’ve really enjoyed our conversation about this. And, you know, I think operations management, something that’s really never touched on in this much detail, you know, what goes into making sure that you have the necessary systems in an alignment to actually scale? I mean, it’s really, really important. Definitely.
Wayne:
May I say something, one last thing that you just said that because most people take operations for granted. They look at the culture, how do we keep our people happy? They look at the strategy and they have their new campaigns they’re going to initiate. Oh, by the way, I hope this works. I hope we have the things in operation to make it work. And that’s not usually the case. It’s usually an afterthought, which means your projects are late, over budget and not hitting your projection. So that’s been my experience. I’m sorry, you hit on a subject that I feel very passionate about because operations is usually a stepchild.
Tanner:
Yeah, no problem. You know, I think that at that point, it’s kind of like throwing pasta at the wall and hoping it sticks. You know, you need a little bit more strategy and you know, what you decide to implement and such. But Wayne I really want to take some time and thank you for taking the time to do this interview. It’s been really great. What’s a great way for anyone listening to get in contact with you?
Wayne:
Well, obviously I’m on LinkedIn. Most people are on LinkedIn from a business standpoint. I have my own website. The name of the company is called Grow Company Profits and the website is growcompanyprofits.com. And there’s also my email address, [email protected]. But I want to offer one last thing to your guests. You know, I talk about alignment of strategy, culture, and operations. We have a free online tool and it’s www.alignmentanalyzer.com. And what that tool does, when you look at those seven different spaces, where are you operating? How are you aligned right now? And one of seven spaces. I have people look at that as a baseline. Know where you’re starting from. Once you know where you’re starting from, you know what you want to do to try do to get to that sweet spot.
So I just see that as a tool to help you get started. And once someone does that, we have more free tools we can help clients use. We can help them identify how much value they’re losing. Where’s their value drains, how much there disengaged employees under sheer complexity, how much they’re infested with those. And the last thing I say, I could show CEO’s how much money you’re leaving. We can put a number on it. If we compare you to an operation, excellent company and your current behaviors, decisions, and actions, we can let you know how much money you’re leaving on the table because of how you run your business today. So they can do that at my site. And I’ve been doing this for a long time and I’m bringing a lot of dollars to the table.
Tanner:
Yeah, no question about that Wayne. We’ll be sure to link up those two websites as well as your email address in the show notes. And thank you again, Wayne.
Wayne:
Thank you. I appreciate it.