E-Commerce secrets to scale

056 - How to Market Your Company to Prospective Employees with Daniel Beck

056 – How to Market Your Company to Prospective Employees with Daniel Beck

E-Commerce Secrets To Scale is a marketing and entrepreneurship podcast that revolves around hearing the stories and strategies of successful entrepreneurs and e-commerce professionals to uncover scaling secrets that will impact your online store.

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Tanner:

This week on the show, Daniel Beck from 401GO joins me to talk about marketing your company to prospective employees. Daniel has some really awesome insights on how to attract the best talent for your business. And this is a really important topic right now because so many businesses are struggling with hiring. I really enjoyed my conversation with Daniel. So stick around.

Welcome to the show Dan, I’m really excited to have you go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience.

Daniel:

Sure. yeah, I’m excited to be here. Thank you, Tanner. I am Dan Beck, a co-founder and the current CEO of 401GO. We’re a FinTech platform providing 401ks predominantly for small businesses, small to medium-sized businesses.

And we just thought, Hey, let’s tackle this big kind of messy issue off 401ks being overly complex.

Tanner:

So I know you have quite an extensive background. You kind of want to walk us through that and then maybe how you got started with 401GO.

Daniel:

Sure. Yeah. I’ve kinda been a lifelong entrepreneur. I’ve started a handful of different businesses and in various industries and in some previous businesses that my brother and I had started, we would go to try to set up benefits for, you know, our team. And, you know, I’d attribute a lot of the success that we’ve had in prior businesses to the fact that we’ve had an amazing team that you know, we’ve wanted to kind of really hold onto. And oftentimes we’ve had employees move from one company to another. But you know, part of that focus was making sure that we had, you know, benefits to retain those individuals. And so 401k was naturally something that we wanted to offer and we tried a couple of times to set something up and it was just, it was too difficult, way more complex than a small business owner you know, should have to worry about.

And then also the cost associated with it were just too high. And so you know, a few years back, we were kind of in the process of winding down a few businesses, selling some assets and kind of just contemplating where to go next. And we just thought, Hey, let’s tackle this big kind of messy issue off 401ks being overly complex. And that’s what led us to where we are now. And what we’ve done is quite unique. We’re one of really only I think another one that I’m aware of that within the last decade has built any software to really kind of focus on the problems of the administration and everything of 401ks. So we put a lot of work into development and what we have now is you know, quite phenomenal, we can get a plan set up and running in as little as 10 minutes. The industry average is eight weeks. So that kind of gives you an idea of the level of automation that we built in. And then the ongoing 401k administration is also just as simple and automated. We connect to, you know, all the major payroll systems and what that means is there’s really nothing for a payroll admin or a company owner to do other than just, you know, reward their employees with a nice retirement benefit.

Tanner:

Yeah, that’s awesome, man. And I, you know, I think that a lot of the times that’s how the best businesses are born, right. Just identifying a problem in your own life and figuring out a better way to do it. Right.

Daniel:

Yeah, absolutely.

Tanner:

So I’m sure you’ve had your fair share of obstacles that you’ve had to go through getting 401GO to where you started to where it is today. Could you share maybe one of those?

Daniel:

Yeah. You know, I’d say the biggest challenge in building, you know, 401GO and really, I think any business is I have a very, you know, kind of technical and operational background. So give me a technical problem or something that involves data or software, you know, something of that nature. And I Excel and do really well with it. The ones that have always been a challenge for me really come down to just kind of those human resources. And I’ve always, I feel that I’ve always put a big focus on hiring individuals that are also entrepreneurial and can really you know, wear multiple hats and think for themselves and everything else. But because of that, I haven’t you know, my approach to kind of management and working with the teams is much more hands-off than I think maybe it should be sometimes. And so a lot of the challenges that I run into you know, really kind of relate to me not providing adequate training or just kind of just human resource issues you know, people don’t come with manuals. And so, you know, I think it’s just, for me, it’s a problem that is a little bit more of a challenge.

As your company scales, it becomes much more imperative that you have just more structure and, you know, you really understand employees.

Tanner:

Yeah. And I can definitely understand that, you know, I think I have that challenge in my business as well. Because, you know, as an entrepreneur, you’re just wired different. Right. And you kinda just assume everyone within your company has the same thought process and learns the same way. So it’s really easy to neglect that. Right.

Daniel:

Absolutely. Yeah. It’s kind of that. And I think, you know, that on the head, it’s the assumption that everyone else around us is like us. And so it’s kind of like, well, in order for me to get this job done, I would need this information and this level of engagement and you assume everyone else is the same. But I found that certainly isn’t the case. And, you know, as your company scales, it becomes much more imperative that you have just more structure and, you know, you really understand employees. And so I even believe in you know, kind of like testing and profiles, just to understand everyone, you know, I think the term I love is everyone’s love language. You know we all express care and receive care in different ways. And so for some employees they need more frequent pats on the back, others don’t and, you know, just the success of what they accomplish is enough. And so that’s something that I have to constantly remind myself is, you know, the people that I’m working with are not just you know, photocopies of me, I need to be a little bit more empathetic.

Tanner:

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it makes things even more hard is the fact that every single employee is going to be different in that regard. Some, like you said, are going to need a lot more praise than others. And so, you know, it really just comes down to knowing your employees on a personal level, knowing what makes them tick and knowing what is going to make them happy to keep them around.

Daniel:

Yeah.

The best way to really serve and work with your team is to understand them, understand what their motivations are, what their fears are their emotions through you know, various cycles of engagement with your company.

Tanner:

So then how did you market 401GO in the beginning and how did, how has that changed over the years?

Daniel:

Yeah, so I mean, we’re a small team and with any startup, you know, I was the marketer and, you know, a dozen other titles at the same time. And I think my background, and I’d say my mode of thinking in business building is very much centered around marketing. And a big component of that really comes down to understanding the customer. So again, it’s kind of the same thing with like employees you know, the best way to really serve and work with your team is to understand them, understand what their motivations are, what their fears are their emotions through you know, various cycles of engagement with your company. And it’s the same thing with customers. And so for me, really, it was imperative that I had a lot of conversations with customers throughout all parts of kind of the customer journey.

So somebody that was just learning about 401ks and considering whether that was something that they’d want for their company all the way through to businesses that had been on our platform and owners that have been using our platform for some time. And so for me, being able to kind of initiate that feedback loop and really leverage that, helped me kind of understand again, that, you know, at the end of the day yes, I’m a small business owner. And so I can certainly appreciate their concerns maybe more than somebody who, you know, who hasn’t had that prior experience, but still, I have to understand that, you know, every small business owner is different. And so it was important for me to really complete that feedback loop. And that was really stage one of the marketing is understanding the customer, understanding our value proposition.

And so initially we put a lot of focus on price. And I think one of the big things that I learned was that was much further down on the list and you know, I should have considered and for most people simplicity and the complexity of 401ks was their primary concern. And so I had to really change kind of the marketing and the messaging to focus more on that. And so the challenge really when it’s just yourself is there’s a lot to do in terms of understanding messaging. And then there’s the actual fulfillment. So it’s having the conversations, it’s moving people through the cell cycle, it’s following up. And you know, at some point when it’s just you, the biggest, I think limitation you run into is resource constraints. And so it’s only been recently within the last couple months that we’ve actually hired somebody to help with sales and somebody to help with marketing. And prior to that, all the growth was largely organic. And that’s just simply because I didn’t have the time to be doing a really good outreach or even good feedback with some of the inbound. And so you know, now that we’ve added those resources we’ve seen that growth has really accelerated.

Tanner:

Yeah, that’s really great to hear man. And I find it really interesting, you know, the bootstrap mentality in the very beginning and how that transforms over time. And you hit the nail on the head. Marketing really is just about understanding your customer. And if you can understand your customer and their problems, then it’s kind of hard not to be successful as long as you can get that message in front of the right People. Right?

Daniel:

Yeah. Yep.

I think a lot of people would prefer to work someplace where they know that their work output has significant meaning.

Tanner:

So our topic for today is how to market your company to prospective employees. And I think you’d agree that this is a really important topic right now because you know, there’s a labor shortage. Everyone’s looking for employees. So, I mean, what are some tips that you can share with us on how to get the attention of a prospective employee?

Daniel:

Yeah, I think first and foremost, again, it’s that kind of understanding of what is it that they need? What is it they’re looking for? And I feel like a lot of the common advice. And if you know, if you start Googling these topics and everything else, I think it’s overly antiquated and what we’re finding. And I believe that COVID has accentuated this, is that employees are much more interested in kind of the intangibles. So the secondary and tertiary benefits of employment and self-actualization, I think is very high. It’s much higher than it was before. And so, you know, during COVID we saw a lot of employees that maybe were with the company for quite some time, and they kind of had a reset to really get out of the rat race for a minute, or just pause and slow down and take a, you know, kind of reflect and realize I’m not doing what I want to be doing.

And, you know, five years out of let’s say, you know, college or my degree or whatever, they find themselves in a position that they’re not you know, yeah, the money’s great, the benefits are awesome. Maybe there’s even a great culture, but they’re not receiving the full kind of reward and the self-actualization. And so I think it’s important to really probably, you know, the best way to maybe find out why somebody would want to work for your company is talk to your existing employees. And hopefully they have good things to say, and hopefully they, you know, they say, Hey, I love it because I can bring my dog to work or whatever. So that’s something that people need to hear about. And too often I read job postings that are just, we need this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this.

And it’s this huge long list they’ll spend, you know, 80 to 90% of the posting talking about what they want and not really advertising or marketing what the company provides to those prospective employees. And it’s telling them, you know, really the culture of the company. I think a lot of people would prefer to work someplace where they know that their work output has significant meaning. And that’s something that we really focus on at 401GO is we’re helping people save for retirement and our focus isn’t on, you know, those that are making 150 $200,000 a year. It’s really on, you know, we have a focus on kind of the underserved market and those who are just new to the workforce. They’re probably not making a lot. And because of that, it’s easier to find talent that is, you know, yes, we have to pay reasonable wages and everything else.

I think it’s really important to market the company and market division and market the culture as much as you possibly can on the job listings.

But they’re engaged and they share in our vision and they share in our company culture. So I think it’s really important to market the company and market division and market the culture as much as you possibly can on the job listings and that’s not always going to be possible, but I find that companies rarely do that. And, you know, I think there’s a lot of ways that we can improve that. But it’s, you know, for us, every job posting has to go through marketing. So, you know, a lot of people wouldn’t think of that, but, you know, I’m treating it as though I’m marketing and advertising. And the engagement process and everything else during that first you know call, I’m selling the company as much as I’m trying to learn about you know, the new perspective hire.

Tanner:

Yeah. I think those are really excellent points. I like that you tied in Maslow’s hierarchy of needs into that, and we’ll link that up in the show notes for anyone that wants to learn a little bit more about that, but you’re spot on Dan. I can’t tell you how many job listings I look at that are just, you know, bulleted lists of skills and experience, and that’s it. It has me wondering, you know, what are your values? What’s your purpose? What’s the vision, what’s your why? But more importantly, what’s the culture, you know, what type of person are you looking for outside of those skills? And, you know, I think that I do a pretty good job at that, when I post a job listing because, of course you still have to list the skills and things that you’re looking for, but my list of personality traits that I’m looking for is way longer than the skills list. And I think that’s really helped me to, you know, find employees that care more about the compensation and the benefits and more about, you know, what we’re doing and, you know, the path that we’re on.

Daniel:

Yeah. Well, and I think the other benefit to it, isn’t just necessarily attracting the talent that you want, but it’s also a kind of a selection, you know, like a sales selection, if you will, where when people read through it, there’s some that you know, they hear, oh, it’s a small company we’re growing aggressively. You’ve got to figure things out on your own. They’re like, holy crap, that scares me,no way. You don’t want to hire that person. And so it’s better to tell them upfront that that’s what, you know, the culture is that the good and the bad so that you don’t have a situation where you’ve got somebody that’s uncomfortable with the, you know, the new position that they just took and, you know, consistently has kind of their foot out the door because they’re looking at, you know, that they’re worried. Whereas other people are like, absolutely, that’s what I’m looking for. And it’s okay that they’re not paying what the competition is. I want to be part of something. I want to grow something. And, so, you know, it’s beneficial not just to attract, it’s not advertising where you’re just trying to get as many eyeballs or impressions as possible. You’re also making sure that you get the right hire and you’re starting that from that very first engagement.

I feel like culture is king when it comes to hiring.

Tanner:

Yeah. And I think that’s an excellent point you know, the perfect person that you’re trying to hire, they should read through that job posting and say, you know, this is speaking directly to me and they should be, that’s how they should feel. And if they don’t feel like that, and you’re probably not doing a very good job at explaining what you’re looking for. So, you know, outside of culture and all that stuff, what do you think is the most important thing that a business should be offering?

Daniel:

Naturally, you know, given the position I’m in, I, of course I have to say benefits, but you know, I’ll be, I’ll be completely honest. I think even benefits you know, healthcare benefits and 401k benefits are secondary to culture and even pay. I feel like culture is king, and that’s now more than ever. People want to work someplace where they feel engaged and they’re willing to take significantly less. They’re willing to figure out benefits on their own. Unfortunately you do exclude a lot of employees that, you know, are maybe leaving the corporate world and don’t understand that it is actually pretty easy to go and find benefits on your own. And so, you know, I think it is a qualifier and it’s a box that that should be checked. But still, I feel like culture is king when it comes to hiring.

So, you know, I’d say definitely try to have benefits. And the nice thing is for a business to set it up it’s than ever. And if you’re in kind of those early stages of setup, just factor that into the cost of employment. You know, if you were normally going to pay, let’s say 50,000 for a position and you know, it’s going to require benefits, get an understanding of what those benefits might cost. And maybe you can only offer 45 or 40 in terms of salary. But employees are looking at total compensation. They’re looking at the total package, they’re looking at you know, all the benefits because that weighs into the decision. And that’s where you see, you know, a lot of talk to a lot of state employees where they’re like, yeah, the pay is not great, but the benefits.

So people understand that there’s more to a job than just the pay. And so I think it’s important to have benefits and even more the benefits to me, help to signal what that culture is. It signals, we care about our employees health the 401k signals. We care about our employees financial wellness, and not just today because of it’s been an immediate benefit to the company, but with a 401k it’s about the employee’s retirement. That’s long past the time they’re going to be working for your company and to show that you care about that moment in their life, I think is and you genuinely care by providing a good, you know, some, a good 401k or a good benefit rather than just the bare minimum. It says a lot about the company and the employees pick up on that.

So I think it’s important to have that, but then really, you know, culture and everything else. It’s one of those things where if you’re doing it and you don’t, you’re doing it just to check the box, they see through that. If you really care about your company, about your team and everything else, which in my opinion, I think most businesses really do. I think that as you, you know, and I see this time and time again, I talk to small businesses all the time where you know, that their coworkers are viewed as family, more so than just human resources or human capital or whatever term you want to use. And because of that, they really do care and they want to take care of them, but they, you know, they also have budget constraints and everything else.

And so at the end of the day, if you’ve got great culture, you can check the box when it comes to benefits and you’ve got decent pay…you’re going to have some of the best talent.

And so as long as you’re being genuine, I think they’ll see that. And as long as you really care about your people, they’ll see that. It’s just a matter of making sure they understand that. And so a lot of the times it’s saying these are what our benefits are so that you can compete against these big corporations that do have amazing benefits. And so at the end of the day, if you’ve got great culture, you can check the box when it comes to benefits and you’ve got decent pay, you know, competitive pay or excellent pay, you’re going to have some of the best talent. And that really differentiates, you know, one business amongst another.

Tanner:

Yeah, absolutely. And I just like to add that, you know, I truly believe that most companies genuinely care about their employees. Maybe they just don’t execute or communicate that very effectively. So what are your thoughts on time off? I know unlimited PTO is kind of the thing right now. What impact do you think that has?

Daniel:

It’s so hard. I’ve tried to implement that in companies. And what you often find is that there are some employees that abuse it, but when it’s in your employee manual, they’re kinda like, well, it says unlimited time off. And so I think you have to be creative with how you present it in such a way that it doesn’t become a problem. And I think on the flip side, you also have companies where yeah, they have unlimited time off, but at the same time, there’s kind of this culture where everybody’s looking around and it’s like eight o’clock at night and no one wants to be the first one to leave because they feel like it’s such a cutthroat environment, or it’s such a competitive environment that they’re not going to be promoted. You know, if they leave work or something. And so there’s a lot of cool things that are happening in the benefits space that we’re seeing. There’s companies that have you know, kind of like a 401k for vacation benefits.

So an employee can contribute to a vacation fund and the employer will match that. And that’s a way for the company to signal to the employees like, yes, we have a vacation policy and we don’t do it just to again, appear cool, but we actually want you to use it. So I know some companies that have mandatory vacation where if you’re not hitting certain amounts, they’ll like, say, Hey, you’re gonna get fired if you dont go on vacation. Because they understand that it really is important to stop, you know, sharpen the saw and, you know, not just keep working, you know, incredibly hard all day long. So I think it’s important, but it’s so difficult. I don’t think there’s really kind of like one you know, one size fits all answer for any business. I think in some businesses you have to have a very structured policy and others you know, you can have a loose policy and if anything, you’re going to have to enforce people actually taking time off.

So it really just comes down to, you know, understanding your workforce, understanding their needs. You know, and at the same time, I think if you have a really kind of cool easy laid back company you know, time off might not be as important because it’s just like, work’s not super stressful. We love what we do. And it’s almost like we play every day we go to work. And I’ve had businesses like that where you know, we’re all having a lot of fun and, and you don’t feel that pressure and you know, with other companies, it’s like, man, I’ve got to make sure I really take time to enjoy a weekend or go on a vacation because it’s super stressful. So I think every owner needs to really think about that and work hard to make sure that they’re, you know, they’re implementing it in the right way. I know that’s like such a non-answer, but it really just comes down to understanding your company and understanding of people.

If you’re a cool company, if you do things different, if you’re hip and modern and everything else, well, the hiring process, the job listing and everything should be the same.

Tanner:

Yeah. I mean like most things with business or, you know, it’s going to depend on the company and who your employees are and what industry you’re working in. So I think that’s a really good answer Dan. So for small businesses, let’s say, first few hires, and they’re putting out a job listing, you know, what are some recommendations you could give to them?

Daniel:

So I’d say with anything employees, this always happens where you put out a posting and I’m sure you’ve seen this as well. And let’s say you get like 50 you know, replies or whatever people kind of posting their resume or whatever. I’d say of those 50 there’s maybe, you know, five to 10% that actually took the time to understand your company and to do some research. And those are the ones you want to talk to. And they’re looking at your LinkedIn pages, your social profiles, your website. And so even if you have like a kick butt job description that maybe you ripped off from like some career site or something like that, and just customized, if they go to your site and, you know, if you talk about being amazing and awesome, have these, you know, this cool culture and super modern, and you’ve got this site that looks like it was built in the late nineties, and hasn’t changed since they’re going to see through that.

And they’re, you know, it’s going to set up red flags and you’re not going to get the talent that you want. And so, and it’s the same thing with marketing. Like you have to envision every touch point, the way that you answered the phone, the way, you know, your business card looks and all of those interactions have to be consistent and they have to carry that same message that is in that job post. And so, you know, at the same time, like when you read a job post and it looks like it was written by a robot you know, a very constrained and everything I know that came from, let’s say IHC where, you know, it’s this massive corporation and it’s very structured and everything else. And that’s okay that to me, signals that this is the type of environment that I’m stepping into.

And it’s, again, it’s important that you’re transparent and your employee, you know, your potential employees get that from the very beginning and that entire job process is going to be highly structured. And so if you’re a cool company, if you do things different, if you’re hip and modern and everything else, well, the hiring process, the job listing and everything should be the same. So it means like, you know, have fun with it. If you’re a fun company you know, really communicate that. Make sure that you display that in all aspects of your, you know, your public appearance, so social postings and everything else. And as long as you do that, then you’re going to find you know, quality talent that understands your business that want to work for you. And there’s not going to be any, you know, kind of regrets after you know, after let’s say a few weeks of employment.

But when I get a cover letter and I can tell it was written for us… that candidate is immediately top of the list.

Tanner:

Yeah. I think that’s great advice Dan. To kind of combat the issue of, you know, applicants not actually reading the job posting, which is a very common problem. I actually put a note in there, I hide it and it says, every job posting, I post a little bit different, but it’s just a different color. So I’ll say if you read the entire job posting, say this color at any point during the interview, and you’d be surprised at how many people don’t do that.

Daniel:

I think that’s clever and I’ve, you know, I’ve thought about doing the same thing. But I’ve also found that even when that first, you know, I always say, give me a cover letter and give me a resume and rarely do I get a cover letter, but when I get a cover letter and it looks boiler plate, they get some additional bonus points. But when I get a cover letter and I can tell it was written for us, and they even mentioned something, you know, like you know, part of our vision statement on the website or whatever it is when it’s clear, they’ve done their research. I mean, that candidate is immediately top of the list. And I’m going to talk to them first because that’s the type of person I’m looking for is somebody that you know, just, doesn’t just, doesn’t follow a process of like resume, resume, resume, you know, attach, send. They’re taking the time to learn about the job position that they’re really interested and that they are probably more entrepreneurial. So I think that’s imperative to look for. But yeah, I think that’s a really creative idea.

I think that a lot of the way you scale your business and the velocity at which you scale comes down to your ability to pivot.

Tanner:

Yeah. And to just add onto what you said, I mean, those applicants are looking for the right job for them. They’re investing additional time going the extra mile to write a custom cover letter. And I have a lot of respect for people like that. And, you know, the other option is someone just blasting their resume to every single job posting out there, hoping that they get just any job. Dan what would you say your secrets to scale are?

Daniel:

You know, it’s tough. Like, I feel like after, you know, kind of after like your first business, or maybe your first couple, you think I’ve got this, like, you know, this super secret recipe that I can just kind of keep iterating over and over and over again. Unfortunately that’s not been true. So I feel like you’ve really got to adapt and maybe that’s what it comes down to is you know, your ability to pivot. And I think that a lot of the way you scale your business and the velocity at which you scale comes down to your ability to pivot and there’s certain things so like taking you know, venture capital as soon as that happens, your flexibility and pivoting it diminishes a little bit because now you’ve committed to a certain path and you’ve taken on investors that want to see you grow and scale based off of that path.

And you can certainly pivot, but now you have to go through a lot more of a process in order to do so. So there is actually a lot of value in staying small and staying nimble until you’ve kind of reached this point where you’re like, this is it, this is the recipe, this is how we scale. And then once that happens, it’s about, you know, just you know, kind of really having a platform of some sort. And, there’s so many out there, you know, and there’s the EOS and there’s you know, Gazelles and, you know, there’s so many different ways of really kind of scaling a business. But I think it has to be dependent on your industry, the types of individuals that you have in your organization, whether it’s bootstrapped, whether it’s venture funded but more than anything, I think it really, I think there’s a lot of value in staying lean while evaluating, but able to pivot. And then also just being well connected, you know, I think that’s the one thing that limited some of the maybe growth with prior companies is I didn’t value networking enough. I didn’t value kind of that you know, kind of the human connection with other entrepreneurs. And so you know, that just gives you, it helps you see your blind spots. So sorry, there’s not one thing there.

Tanner:

No, we, we love multiple secrets. I really liked that you put an emphasis on networking business really is about who, you know, and if you don’t know anyone, you got to get out and get to know those people, right.

Daniel:

Absolutely. Learn from other people’s mistakes. I think that’s what it really comes down to, and it’s nice just to have a network where you can say, Hey, look, we’re trying to do this. What should I do? And some of the time, you know, rarely ever will somebody say, this is what you should do. But a lot of people say I tried this, it didn’t work out so well. But I did try this and this seemed to be okay. And I think that alone could save a lot of time.

Tanner:

Yeah. It’s great to have someone that you can just bounce ideas off of and, you know, like you said, they may not have the right answer or the solution for you, but they might, you know, get those gears going in your head and you might be able to figure it out just by talking about it. And I especially liked that one of your secrets to scale was pivoting because it truly is crucial, especially in the early days, you’re still trying to figure everything out. And you just gotta find product market fit. Once you find that, then it’s off to the races.

Daniel:

Totally. Yeah, absolutely.

There’s no greater investment that you’re ever going to make than investing in yourself.

Tanner:

So, Dan, I really want to thank you for taking the time to do this interview. Is there anything that I have not asked you that you think might benefit the audience?

Daniel:

My kind of, I think parting words, if you will for anybody that’s kind of aspiring to be an entrepreneur or to jump into business like you just have to do it and there’s no greater investment that you’re ever going to make than investing in yourself. And if it’s a side hustle and you’re contemplating moving forward, just do everything you can to figure out how. It’s exciting. It’s terrifying, it’s stressful. But you know, I love it and I try to encourage as many as I possibly can to just do it, to just jump in and it’s okay to make mistakes. It’s okay to fail and to just not give up, but for a lot of people, I think they’re, you know, we’re just naturally risk averse. But you’ll never like the, even if you fail the lessons that you’ll learn and the character that you’ll build and the skills that you’ll obtain that will benefit your future career or employment or whatever it may be are, it’s the best lessons that you can ever have in terms of business you know, beats any MBA or anything.

So I’d say, just jump in and do it, like invest in yourself throw caution to the wind and have fun. You’re going to learn a lot.

Tanner:

Yeah, man, I couldn’t agree more. You, really just have to jump in with both feet and, you know, be okay with what might happen. You know, it could be good, could be bad, but like you said, you can always fail forward. You’re always going to get some piece of knowledge or some new skill that’s going to benefit you for the rest of your career. And, you know, like you said, it’s way better than any MBA out there. When I started my business, I didn’t know basically anything about marketing just by jumping in and doing it I was able to learn a lot about it and I truly think that’s the best way to learn.

Daniel:

Absolutely. Yep. Especially for me, I think everybody has their own ways, but for me, like learning hands-on you know, filling the burn of the mistakes that I’ve made and the, you know, the glory of the wins that I’ve had. Those are the, you know, life’s most richest lessons.

Tanner:

Yeah, absolutely. So, Dan, thank you again for coming on the show. What’s a great way for anyone listening to get in contact with you.

Daniel:

Yeah. You can find me on LinkedIn. Daniel G. Beck is how you can find me. That’s a good way. Also, you know, 401GO reach out there. You can, you know, we’ve got contact forums, chats, you name it. So that’s I love talking to small businesses and helping others, you know, kind of down this road of entrepreneurship. So I’d love to chat with anybody.

Tanner:

Awesome. And we’ll make sure to link that up in the show notes. And thank you again, Dan.

Daniel:

Yeah. Thank you. It’s been fun. Appreciate it.

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