E-Commerce secrets to scale

049 - Using Cold Email Techniques To Scale With Justin McGill

049 – Using Cold Email Techniques To Scale With Justin McGill

E-Commerce Secrets To Scale is a marketing and entrepreneurship podcast that revolves around hearing the stories and strategies of successful entrepreneurs and e-commerce professionals to uncover scaling secrets that will impact your online store.

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Tanner: 

This week on the show, Justin McGill, CEO, and founder of LeadFuze joins me to talk about using cold email techniques to scale your business. Justin is a cold email expert. He shares with us how to get started in cold email, how to get quality outbound data, as well as some messaging tips. If you’re looking for a better way to boost yourselves, this episode is for you. 

Welcome to the show Justin, I’m really excited to have you go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience. 

Justin: 

Yeah, thanks for having me, man. So yeah, my name’s Justin McGill. I run LeadFuze. I guess I started as an entrepreneur in ‘08 with what I called at the time and agency, but really it was just me building some websites. I taught myself Dreamweaver in high school and just started kind of building websites for companies and had somebody asked me if I did SEO. I had no idea what that was and looked that up and realized that I could transition my whole focus to recurring revenue and decided to jump on that bandwagon and ended up building out a whole agency with a team of people and scaled that into a seven figure agency and did that primarily through some cold email and outbound, as ironic as that sounds, given it was an inbound agency, but you know, when you’re competing against other inbound agencies and you’re all talking SEO, it’s you know, it’s tough to stand out, right. So yeah, I did that through, built that through cold email and then got into the software game in 2014 and that’s when I launched LeadFuze.  So yeah, that’s the background there. 

Cold email was not nearly as saturated as it is now and so you really need to stand out. 

Tanner: 

That’s an awesome story, man. So, transitioning from an agency to Lead Views, I’m sure it was a lot different, right. What were some obstacles that you faced during that transition and trying to get LeadFuze up and going?  

Justin: 

Yeah, So it actually started, so with my agency, I had built some project management software, a very saturated market, but there wasn’t really anything for like recurring marketing campaigns. And so we had built a system internally that I decided to kind of repackage that if you will, as my first foray into SAS and did everything you’re not supposed to do. I mean, I spent 10 months kind of rebuilding it, threw 60 grand at it and launched day came and it was like, you know, no one cares, right. And so it didn’t do a great job with like engaging any sort of a list and, you know, doing anything like that. And so I set out a goal to have like a thousand dollars MRR within three months, and I think it was like around 400 bucks. And so it was just, I was like, all right, you know, what else am I going to do? 

And so I decided to kind of take a look at what I had already built again with my agency, but this time I was going to try and wrap a service around it. And I mentioned how I scaled up my agency right through outbound and whatnot. And one of those things was to like scrape Google search results for given keywords. And then it would scrape the website and who is, and try to get emails that way and whatnot. And so you know, ended up kind of building out a little more to that, but basically launched LeadFuze as this done for you service with that model initially. Cold email was not nearly as saturated as it is now. And so you really need to stand out like, so contact ads and info ads and help ads, like those types of emails worked okay.  

But you know, now, I mean, you really need to kind of get to the specific individual you’re after, right. And so we had to kind of start there with the service proved that it would work, had a goal again, a thousand dollars, but I wanted to do it in 30 days. And, you know, we were charging something like ridiculously cheap at the time. It was like 300 bucks a month or something like that for the done for you service. And so, we had a few thousand after the first month and kind of doubled and doubled again, I was like, okay. So I think there’s something here. And we could start to kind of really focus on the software side of it. And so we got that going, but yeah, I mean, that was a challenge in that whole transition was the loss of time and money and everything on the first software product and then kind of needing to, you know, just rebuild and launch something else, I guess you know, immediately after that, so. 

Tanner: 

Yeah, I mean, and that’s the story of being an entrepreneur, right? You go up and down, up and down kind of just end up where you fall. Right. But there was a lot of learning that goes into it and I’m sure you sure he felt that for sure.  

Justin:  

Yea, definitely.  

Keep testing and keep doing things over and over again. 

Tanner:  

So, Justin, what would you attribute your success to over the years? 

Justin: 

You know, it’s interesting, man. I was actually a really bad student in high school. Did not like doing any homework. I didn’t do any quite frankly. Barely graduated, but then as I’ve gotten older, like, you know, like I’ve really just had this thirst for learning. And I’ve kind of realized about myself, like if I’m not learning something at all times, like I just get really bored. And so for me, like just constantly, you know, researching better ways to do certain things, right. Whether I’m going to start doing, you know, Facebook ads or whatever, you know, SEO, whatever it is that you’re going to do. You know, I think just like really zeroing in on what it takes to be successful at that and, and like not giving up right. And just kind of keep testing and keep doing things over and over again. But you know, I would say that, you know, that’s probably what’s helped me more than anything, 

Tanner: 

You know, I think there’s a lot to be said about that. You know, we should truly be trying to learn as much as we possibly can every single day. And, you know, that’s what separates the successful entrepreneurs from the unsuccessful ones. You can’t really get complacent. You always need to be learning something new and staying on the edge of everything, right. 

Justin: 

Yeah. Like I said, I mean, I just, I get bored if I’m not, you know, if I’m not learning something. So it’s definitely helped me for sure. 

Probably one out of a hundred campaigns that I see are actually even worth anything. 

Tanner: 

So, this episode is all about cold email. I’m sure you guys guessed that. So Justin, what are your first steps that you would recommend for anyone trying to get started in cold email? 

Justin: 

Yeah. So if you’re, you know, just getting started, I mean, a lot of people have hesitation, like, you know, oh, but you know, I don’t want to bother people. It’s like, listen, this is how sales get done. I mean, that’s the bottom line. So if you want to grow your business you know, this is a path to do it. The way you don’t bother people is like spamming them with irrelevant messages and bad email copy. Right? Like if it’s something that they can use and something that they can, whether it’s to grow or whatever your service offering is, like find the ultimate, like the, the core value of it. And then make sure it’s positioned in a way that that is not spammy, right. I mean, that’s, that’s kind of the idea. You know, like there’s so many, so many lessons I can share. 

I mean, like I just, it’s probably one out of a hundred campaigns that I see that are actually even worth anything like with cold email and people wonder like, oh, well, cold email doesn’t work. It’s like, no, of course it works. I mean, this is why people do it all the time. Right. It’s just like, your message is not on point. You know, it’s not relevant to who you’re targeting. I mean, you could have targeting problems. You definitely, highly likely have messaging problems. You know, there’s a number of reasons why it might not work, but, you know, to just come out and say that it doesn’t is you know, it’s just highly inaccurate, quite frankly. 

Tanner: 

Yeah. I agree with that. And, you know, it’s a common misconception, right? Because everyone’s inboxes are flooded with these spammy messages and the problem is they don’t have any value proposition at all. It’s like, Hey, I’m selling this. Do you want it. 

Identify your target market, know who that is. 

Justin: 

Right. Yeah. Well, and then some of it’s like, you know, book a time with me here. Right. And it’s like, this is such a huge ask. I mean, like your whole goal is to just get a response, like start a conversation, right, is what I always say. And like to think someone’s just going to click your link to book a time without, you know, with you just sending your marketing copy email, like you’re going to get a 0%. Yeah. Of course. It’s not going to work. Right. I mean, it just doesn’t work that way. So, you know, number one, I mean, like identify your target market, know who that is, you know, just, you’re probably going to have to test different messages and, and different value props and whatnot to zero in on what’s working. It might not even be something directly related to your service could be like something else. 

I mean, for example for you, right. I mean, you might start a conversation asking somebody to join your podcast or something, right. Or maybe do a webinar or, you know, like do a guest post exchange. I mean, you start there. Right. And, and kind of build a relationship and then who knows where it can go from there. So it doesn’t necessarily just have to, you know, you don’t have to just do it with, you know, your core offering. Right. So had a client when we were doing the done for you stuff. He was targeting plastic surgeons, which is a very hard niche to sell digital marketing services to. Right. And, but he was also, he had launched a podcast specifically talking about things happening in the plastic surgery world. Right. And so he would reach out to get them on as a guest. 

And I mean, we literally had 72 conversions the first month. Like it was insane, right. Like he had to, he was like, dude, like I’m not even gonna be able to interview this amount of people. Right. So we had to like scale it back and we, you know, just do other things for different offers and whatnot. But, you know, like, I mean, if he tried to just go at them with, you know, Hey, I specialize in digital marketing for plastic surgeons, you probably would have gotten zero response. Right. Like someone would have caught that email before it even got to that person and everything else. So you know, get creative with, with your offer first and foremost you know, and understand who your, your market is. 

Tanner: 

Yeah. You know, that’s really important, right? You can’t just lead with your core offering. You need something that’s going to get your foot in the door with the prospect and build trust and rapport with them. Really what we’re focusing on here is touch points. You know, more, you can talk to someone the more they’re going to trust you and the more likely they are to entertain any sort of offering that you have. 

Justin: 

Yeah. It’s a great topic to just even before the relationship starts on having kind of a multi-channel approach. Right. So yeah, you’re going to send a cold email, but I would also add in like connecting with them on LinkedIn. You could even like target them with ads on Facebook and Instagram. Right? So you build this custom audience of people that you’re going to target. So now, like you’ve got this, multi-touch, you know, outbound campaign where it’s cold email, it’s LinkedIn, it’s, they’re seeing your ads, so you’re kind of everywhere. And so now, you know, they’re going to be familiar with you when you’re following up via cold email and everything else that can improve your response rates. So you know, doing that even pre relationship is helpful. Right? 

Tanner: 

Yeah. And that’s a good point. I don’t think a lot of people really think about doing that, you know, making your name or your company or your brand name recognizable before the cold email even gets delivered is a game changer. 

Justin: 

Absolutely. Yeah. They’re just, they’re more familiar with you, right? So then you time that ad campaign to be running when you’re sending cold emails to them, or maybe, you know, start that just slightly beforehand you know, the, the familiarity will help with that response rate. 

I always recommend having a separate email or a separate domain that you’re using for your email sending. 

Tanner: 

So let’s talk about the technical side of things. When it comes to launching a cold email campaign like warming up your domain, what type of domain you should be using, all that stuff. 

Justin: 

Yea. Great question. So definitely like you’re seeing more kind of email warmup tools become available. And basically what they do is allow you to, they’ll either, A. connect to your inbox or B. you’ll have like a list that you send emails to. And essentially their services are going in and like interacting with those emails, they’re opening them, they’re clicking links, they’re responding to them. And so what that’s doing is building up credibility for your cold email sense, and that allows you to start ramping up more quickly with, you know your outbound campaign. I mean, a lot of times I’ll see people, I want to contact a hundred thousand people. Right. Well, you probably don’t want to contact a hundred thousand people necessarily because you’re, you don’t have your message, right? Like you’re thinking, well, I need five customers, 10 customers. Like I got to contact a hundred thousand people. Well, no, you have a messaging problem definitely. Right. But you know, if you do have it dialed in and you are ready to scale you know, warming up your inbox is certainly an important step. As far as the domain. That’s another good question. I know with our done for you service, we would actually register a separate domain. So we would get like the.co or.net or.biz or whatever, version domain, then forward the domain to the main website. But we would use those as our, you know, email sending. I still recommend that because like, if you get too many complaints, I mean, you’re going to have a problem with deliverability on your main email account. And so when you’re sending your marketing messages to your own list or to your own customers those things end up in spam and then, you know, you’ve got challenges there. Yes. You can get out of it. You know, a couple times, but after like, you know, you could run into some problems there. So just to stay on the safe side, I always recommend having a separate email or, you know, a separate domain that you’re using for your email sending. 

Tanner: 

Yeah. Right. Because that could be really catastrophic. None of your marketing messages can never get delivered to your list. Right. You’re, you’re engaged with. 

Justin: 

Absolutely. Yeah. And then not only that, I mean, you could run into firewall issues. So if companies have, you know, like they just will block your emails from even reaching them. Right. Especially like if you’re going after any sort of enterprise clients you know, it’s almost like a must do at that point just to make sure your main company emails can still get through. 

A cold email campaign, you should be getting 30% plus on your open rates. 

Tanner: 

So what kind of tips do you have for making sure that you’re targeting the right audience? 

Justin: 

Yeah, I think ultimately, you know, if you’re a business that can target multiple, figuring out a way to really stand out. Right. So for me, I actually, so I mentioned earlier, I’ve just constantly got to be learning. I actually acquired a small, like live chat app that’s kind of hyper-focused on local companies. Right. And so for me, I mean, I could go a number of different ways with that, but I’m basically gonna do like a hands-off cold email campaign for that whole app. Right. And not really get too involved, but, you know, have that just running automatically. And so one of the things I’ve done is kind of had a designer put together a you know, an image, like a gift that shows that industry being searched you know, like finding the website, messaging them through like Google my business, you know, and like having their local listing that’s relevant to that industry or that business right now, I’ve got variations of that for different industries. And so that’s something where like you’re hyper personalizing based on an industry which can be really effective. Obviously it depends on, you know, just more than that, but it’s an idea. Right. So that’s one thing is making sure that if you can target multiple industries, you’re doing something to stand out. You know, the other is like, obviously if you only have the one industry, then I mean, that is what it is, right. I mean, that’s your market. You’ve got to just really focus on different offers and different messages. You’ll know, if it’s working or not just based on response rates and, you know, open rates and everything else. So, you know, a cold email campaign, I mean, you should be getting 30% plus on your open rates. Depending on what your call to action is you know, that your response rates can, can vary. I mean, if you’re asking someone to hop on a call, you’re probably gonna see a lot smaller of a response rate. Right. if you’re asking someone to respond to the email, then, you know, like that’s an easier ask and you’ll likely see a higher response rate. Now you’re going to have to go through multiple steps probably to get them where that you want them to go. But, you know, just my point there is, it’s not like, okay, well I have this response right now, change everything. No, it’s like, got to understand what you’re asking and who the market is and whatnot, but you’ll be able to tell, you know, it’ll be pretty obvious as you run multiple campaigns to different industries, which ones are, you know, it’s resonating with. And you know, you start to focus more on those that are receptive to it. 

Tanner: 

So, we’ve talked about, you know, making sure you’re targeting the right audience. But what’s also important is getting really high quality outbound data. In your opinion, what’s the best way to do that? 

Justin: 

Yeah. I mean, obviously I’m biased, right? I mean, I run LeadFuze. We spend a lot of time on like getting the right data. And so for us, so little, you know, inside baseball here, right? Like basically we use like LinkedIn for job data and their job history and everything. Linkedin does not give you contact information, but you know, they give you a lot of quality information. And so A. we’ve got to make sure hundreds of millions of profiles stay up to date. We do that on a quarterly basis. Then we have data partnerships that we use to kind of enrich or supplement that data with contact information. So, you know, personal emails, company emails, mobile numbers, phone numbers, addresses like personal emails are helpful because when you build custom audiences, they don’t use company emails to register on Facebook and Instagram. Right. So they use their personal and so you can have a higher match rate there. And so we keep that data up to date. We actually had a built-in cold email tool years ago, and we were going to go down this whole path of like, you know, adding a dialer and everything else. But what we decided was to like, just, we want to be really good at data. And so let’s just focus there. We’re going to integrate natively with different outreach tools. And so we do that. So for example, like if you use something like Limbless for cold email, or Mailshake like, you can connect that tool to lead views and then have your individual lists sync to specific campaigns in that software. And so you can have like different campaigns for different industries, right? Like for different lists and everything else. 

And so you’ve got 10 different campaigns running potentially from inside of lead views. You can automate the list building as well, so you give it criteria and it’s just completely hands-off. Right. So it’s just a whole hands-off automated solution. I mentioned the chat, I think I could do that because LeadFuze allows me to do that. It’s completely hands-off you know, we’ll all have a VA or something handle responses and all that, but you know, that’s how, you know, you can do it, you can scale it that way. But yeah, but again, I mean, you can use like zoom info, they’re a publicly traded company. You know, as a, as a competitor of ours. There’s Dunn and Bradstreet or Lexus Nexus. So there’s some huge companies in the space. You know, they’re doing a lot more than just data. They’ve got, you know, their own outreach and everything kind of built in, I mean, you’re paying for that, right? Like they’re targeting enterprises, they’re targeting large customers. So if that’s you, then that’s a great option as well. 

Tanner: 

Yeah. I would say that there aren’t really that many options out there for, you know, entrepreneurs that might just be starting out like exact data in ZoomInfo, like you said, they’re enterprise levels. So they’re really, really expensive. And most people will find themselves priced out of software like that. So, you know, I recently started using LeadFuze about a month ago and so far I’ve been satisfied with the compared to some of your lower end price competitors, like seamless AI and stuff like that. So. 

Justin: 

Thanks man. I appreciate that feedback. Yeah. It’s like, I know for us, you know, we get a lot of people that will compare those types of tools. And generally we’ll see, we’ll hear a feedback that, you know, our data’s a little more accurate, but that’s like also, like we have an option inside of LeadFuze to do like double verified emails only. So we have our own built-in email validator that will run in real time. So like, even if you don’t check that, like, if we know the inbox doesn’t exist anymore, like that lead, won’t get added to your list anyway. If you choose double verified only that means that we’ll have had to have done a handshake with their, you know, email system, their SMTP. And if that turns back successful, then we’ll add it. If it is anything other than successful we won’t add it, which will eliminate like 60% of domains that are kind of what are called catch all. And you can’t validate those in real time, but at least it gets, you started with like the best of the best. And so typically with just starting a campaign, I actually recommend you turn that on. That way, you know, you’ve got like the cleanest of the clean data. 

Tanner: 

Yeah. And I thought that feature was really cool. Yeah. Like you said, a lot of email servers are catch all so you can necessarily verify them. So that kind of limits how many you can put on your list, but 

Justin: 

Yeah, it cuts down the, the potential there. Now, what I would do is I would start off with double verified and then as the account your email account and everything is in a great state, you know, great standing, it’s got a great reputation. I mean, then you can open that up and just go, you know, kind of single verified, which means that, you know, we came across that through our data partnership or to crawling whatever. And so that’s, that’s it though, right? Like we, we haven’t verified it, you know, it might not even be something you can verify. So we’re just kind of trusting it if you will. But yeah, I would do that kind of after your email accounts pretty well warmed up and entrenched. 

That first line in a cold email is the most critical. 

Tanner: 

Yeah. That’s good advice, Justin. So, so let’s talk about messaging now. You and I both know that’s the most important part of cold email, and I would bet you, anyone listening to this 90% of the cold emails you get are just God awful, and don’t even warrant a response, or maybe you read it for three words and then hit delete, like I do, but you know, what are some tips that you can share with us about, you know, dialing in your messaging and making sure that it’s actually going to get what you want out of it? 

Justin: 

Yeah, absolutely. So a lot of different things. There’s a framework I came up with called QVC. Not like it’s like the shopping channel, but obviously very unrelated. And, you know, typically what you would want to do is start off with a question. You have to understand that first line in a cold email is like the most critical, because that’s the one that shows up in preview camp you know, like your preview section of your email tool. And, like, that’s the one that’s seen more than anything. So if you waste that line on introducing yourself, like you’re already telling them, like, you don’t know me and here’s something else for you to look at, right? Like, I mean, so your open rates will go down. If you start it with a relevant question right off the bat you’ll see, you know, a higher open rate and typically a higher response rate. 

So I like to start off with some sort of a question again, this is not like an absolute, I mean, you can test different things. Like, I used to be like three sentences max. Right? Well, sometimes I’ve said like three paragraphs in a cold email that was, I felt completely relevant and it was hyper-personalized. So this wasn’t something at scale that I was doing. But like a massive response rate, if you can, you know, just be hyper relevant to them the views, your like your value prop. So, you know, explaining what benefit they would get by, you know, engaging with you and then see is the close. And generally with that, I will ask a question you know, up for a discussion, right. It could be something like that. Hi, first name, comma. Would you be up for discussion on this? 

You know, something like that, right? That, you know, if this is interesting to you, please grab a time here. You know, it’s too much of a commitment, right. For people, like I mentioned earlier. So your goal is just to get them to respond to your cold email responses, help your email reputation as well. Right? So like, it’s just good all around. I use the PS to either reinforce a value prop or in this case, like, especially on your first one use it as your opt out so that you need to provide some way for people to opt out. It does not have to be an unsubscribe link, which kind of eliminates that personal personalized feel. But what you could do is like if you prefer, I don’t follow up with you just respond, let me know. 

Right. Well, that response is actually doing you a favor as well, because again, it shows a strong signal that, you know, people are engaging with your email. So I prefer to kind of make it feel more personalized and not have an unsubscribe link, but, you know, either which way you need to have them, you know have an option for people to get out of that. Now in my followups, I always include the previous message as well. And so that way you know, I don’t have to keep reemphasizing here’s your unsubscribed, right? Like, it’s there at the bottom of the email. So I’m following all the rules. And then I’ll like, my second email is generally like, just a question. I mean, literally like eight words, right? Like it’s super, super quick, super easy. And so like, I’ll kind of spread it out with like either A. alternating my ask. 

So it could be to just check out this guide or you know, some other offer kind of rotate that through. 

Generally I’ll go like about four emails. I don’t want to go longer than that really, because what ends up happening is those all stack. So I’ll kind of get nerdy here for a second, but basically say you’re sending to 50 leads a day, right? You want to reach 50 new leads a day. If you’ve got a four part email sequence that means like on a certain day you know, so when you’re just starting, maybe you’ve got every three days, right? So the first day you’re sending out 50. The second day, 50. Third day, 50.  Fourth day, now you’re sending a hundred because you’ve got your 50 new ones that you’re sending, but also 50 from that first day that now we’re getting your follow-up right. 

And so now again, the next day is as a hundred, the next day is a hundred. Next day is 150, because now they’re getting your third email. Some are getting the second email, some are getting their first. So if you’ve got four emails, you’re gonna end up with 200 people, you know, you’re emailing 200 people a day now. And if you’re just starting that, I mean, you’re going to get your email account shut down. Right. You don’t have that credibility yet. Right. If now if it’s warmed up and everything, then no problem. But you know, you’ve got to kind of be aware of that. Not only in terms of like how many emails you want as part of your sequence, but also like how many people you’re going to be reaching out to. So again, just something to think about, but 

Every 6, 8, 10 months, don’t be afraid to re-engage those people. 

Tanner: 

Yeah, that’s an excellent point. Not to mention the fact that, you know, if you haven’t got them on the phone by four emails, you probably don’t need to send them anymore. Right. Sometimes I get 10 email sequences sent to me and it’s like. 

Justin: 

What you could do  that could be effective is, is okay, stop that campaign. Right. And then in six months, eight months, 10 months, whatever, like they believe me, they have no idea who you are. They don’t remember you sending them an email. Right. And so now you can start like kind of a new campaign to them. Maybe it’s a better time, right. If they haven’t said no you know, it’s not that they’re just not interested. It’s just, they’re not interested right now, or they’re doing something else or they didn’t see your message or whatever. And so you know, you can keep following up with them until I tell you just get lost obviously. But you know, every 6, 8, 10 months, I mean, don’t be afraid to like, re-engage those people. 

Getting a little more relevant to the company, a little more personalized, will help your open rates definitely. 

Tanner: 

Yeah. And that’s a good point too. So what recommendations do you have about cold email subject lines? 

Justin: 

Yes. That is a, that’s a big one, man. I mean, that’s, you know, I mentioned the first line of your email. Subject line obviously is the most important. So if you can add some personalization, whether it’s their name, their company name you know, something like that, or, you know, say you’re targeting someone that’s hiring. Right. So like, for us, one of our campaigns is people hiring for salespeople. And so we’ll reach out to sales managers and we’ll be like you know, saw you’re hiring salespeople. Right. Like, I mean, so it’s relevant to them. Saw a company name is hiring for salespeople, right. Something like that. So kind of use whatever is your angle too. Right. So if there’s something you know, maybe, you know, there’s spending money on ads, right? Like that’s another filter we have. So it is their ad words, budget. And so maybe you know, saw your ad and have some ideas, right? Like something like that, it’s going to stand out versus you know, PPC services, right. PPC optimization, what, I mean, that’s the stuff you see, unfortunately, but you know, getting a little more relevant to the company, a little more personalized you know, will help your open rates definitely. 

Tanner: 

So this has all been really great. Justin, what do you think your secrets to scale are?  

Justin: 

Man, I guess, you know, Just really kind of, if I’m going to pursue a channel like I got, obviously when I was doing digital marketing, I mean, I really learned the ins and outs of content marketing. Saw that that’s really where the ongoing SEO is if you will. And so, like, I really wanted to learn and be a master at content marketing. Right. when I launched LeadFuze, I knew I really needed to become like the ultimate expert in cold email and outbound. And so really just dove into that, learned all the different techniques in terms of messaging that works and subject line strategies, all of that. Right. We’ve got a post that’s like 50 different things you can split test with a cold email, which is, seems crazy. But there’s so many little elements to it. 

And so you know, if you’re going to do Facebook ads, right. Like understanding how their algorithm works, how to set up campaigns, testing different things. Like for us, for example, one of our use cases is staffing, right? So we’ve got staffing companies that are using us. So we recently did a video where we have like their, their name and are like legions.com. Part of the URL is their company name. And we, we went after like large staffing companies. And so we put together like this little quick explainer type video and then targeted those staffing companies with that. Right. Like, so I’ve never seen anyone do that. You know, it was just kind of something I came up with and we have data for it. And so I was like, why not, you know, kind of experiment.  

I could come up with that idea because I’ve absorbed myself into that channel. Right. And, and kind of learning little techniques along the way. And so, you know, just diving into whatever you’re doing, right. Whether it’s, you know, better interviewing or, you know, I talk a lot of growth because that’s who I am, what I do is sales and marketing. And so that’s what I’m always thinking about, but, you know, I think whatever it is, whatever challenge you’re facing, like really diving into that and understanding it you know, and testing different things is ultimately what’s going to lead to, you know, a well optimized process. 

Tanner: 

Yeah, no question, Justin. So I want to thank you for taking the time to do this interview. You’ve been awesome. You’ve given us some awesome insights. Is there anything that I have not asked you that you think might benefit the audience? 

Justin: 

I don’t think so. I think we covered quite a bit, especially on the cold email topics. So I think we’re good. I can’t think of anything off hand that I would add to it, I guess at this point, but if I didn’t and you have questions or something by all means, feel free to reach out. I’m happy to provide some feedback and do that for you, so. 

Tanner: 

Awesome, man. So what’s a great way for anyone listening to get in contact you.  

Justin: 

Yeah, I guess I should’ve mentioned that. [email protected] works you can connect with me on LinkedIn as well, but yeah, either of those is fine. 

Tanner: 

Cool, man. We’ll, make sure to link that up in the show notes and thank you again, Justin. 

Justin: 

Awesome. Tanner, I appreciate it. 

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