CONNECT WITH CALVIN:
Tanner:
This week on the show, I have Calvin Correli and he is the CEO and founder of Simplero. Calvin and I talk about bootstrapping a SAAS business and why bootstrapping is so important in order to preserve the founder’s original vision. This was an awesome episode. I hope you guys enjoy.
Welcome to the show, Calvin. I’m super excited to have you. Go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience.
Calvin:
Hey Tanner, it’s super to be here. My name is Calvin Corelli, I’m the CEO and founder of Simplero founder of Notable Nation and a couple other companies. And yeah, super excited to be here.
Tanner:
Awesome, man. So yeah, you’re the founder of Simplero. Can you give us a quick summary of what Simplero is and how it works?
I knew it was right because I built it for me.
Calvin:
Absolutely. Yeah. Simplero is an integrated complete software for info marketers, coaches, authors, speakers, people who live off of selling information and coaching and other such things whether it’s in person or as pretty much everything is these days virtual. Does everything that you need from your website to getting paid to email marketing, to delivering your content to affiliate tracking, landing pages, all of it in one integrated software so that you can avoid patching together 15 different tools just to run your business.
Tanner:
Yeah. So that makes sense. Simplero simplicity, making things easier for those people. Awesome. So let’s go back to the very beginning. I’m really interested in how you came up with the idea and also how you knew it was the right idea.
Calvin:
Yeah, that was something that I struggled with for years. I had a consulting firm. I was selling time for money as a programmer, and I knew that I wanted to be in the product business, but it was you know, all the things that I tried didn’t work out. So this came about after a five year period of personal growth from psychotherapy, to coaching, to becoming a coach, to working with a spiritual teacher and other body therapy, other things. And finally, one day I sat down and asked myself the question, what is it that I’m here to do? And the answer that came to me was I’m here to integrate spirituality and entrepreneurship. Not just we do some entrepreneurship, and then we do some spiritual stuff, but like that my spirituality meet my life purpose, expanding the capacity to love means questioning thoughts and beliefs.
It means relating in a mature way to our emotions. All of these things are at the heart of my entrepreneurship, of my company, of my business. And my first thought was, Holy crap, this makes a ton of sense. All of my entrepreneurial friends are struggling with the same things and they need to learn these same things. And I realized that this was not just good for the entrepreneur and the business, but this is the way that we solve all of the big challenges that we’re facing as humanity is through conscious entrepreneurs, right? We don’t solve problems with government. It doesn’t solve anything. We don’t solve problems with nonprofits. My experience, and you know, I’m sure there’s a lot of lovely people that work for nonprofits, but my experience has consistently been that they take the nonprofit the most serious of all, make sure we use all the money who cares if it goes through anything useful or not.
Right. so I really see businesses as a solution to all the challenges given that, on the basis that the founder of the entrepreneur is coming from a conscious place and with that intention. And so I was like, let me, I need to teach this stuff to other entrepreneurs. Discovered online courses, which is very fortunate, in 2008, I was like, this is genius. I can do that. And then I built, I did my own online course, and I was like, I can do the better software better than that. And started building that. And so build it up piece by piece and very early on, had people asking me, Hey, can I use it too? And so it was validated in that sense very early on, but I knew it was right because I built it for me. And I built it directly from that feeling of life purpose in what I’m here to do.
If persistence is good enough for the president of the United States, then it’s good enough for me.
Tanner:
Yeah. That’s awesome. And you know, I commend you for that because I think a lot of entrepreneurs really struggle with finding what their purpose is and what their why is and building.
Calvin:
And it took too many years of finding that. Of looking.
Tanner:
Yeah. I mean, it’s definitely no cakewalk. I mean, you really have to dig deep and truly understand yourself to not only build a company that will help you survive, but help other people as well. Like if it doesn’t contribute to your purpose, then you’re probably not going to be happy in that business.
Calvin:
Yeah. And you’re not going to last, right? Like I read an article. So I was very deep in, fairly deep, I guess, in the tech world, investment in Silicon Valley. I never really lived in Silicon Valley, but I flirted with it. But that sort of environment, I remember Paul Graham, I don’t know if you know, Paul Graham founder of an incubator. There’s not really an accelerator called the Y Combinator. He was the first person to come up with that idea. I think, where they invest, you know small amount of money, Robin money, they call it, in a batch of startups, hoping that they can get funding and the blow up and all that. And what he said was he wrote an essay, it was called no startup ever died mid key stroke. Right, it’s so profound.
Like as long as you’re still like, these are tech companies. So the keystroke is then writing code. But as long as they’re still working on it, the company is not dead. You may run out of money. Right? Your investors may have moved on. They’re like, ah, I give up on this thing, like, yeah, write it up as a loss. Right? All your employees left, but if you’re still there working on the thing, that’s not dead yet. And I think that’s what I saw for me for most of the attempts that I made, all the attempts that I made before. This was that it all turned out to be way, way, way, way harder than I thought it was going to be. And then when that was the case, I wasn’t prepared to go the distance because I didn’t care that much. And then I would just abandon it and try the next thing.
But when you’re doing something that you’re like, this is my purpose, you’re going to fricking find a way you’re going to stick with it. And then you are going to succeed. Because persistence is the absolute number one key to success. Persistence. Just forget talent, forget education, forget genius, forget all those things. Persistence. If you keep doing it, you keep getting in there every day, getting up and kicking the, you know working on it. You will succeed. I believe so much in that, that I took the name of the guy who made that quote. I paraphrase it, but Calvin Coolidge was the 30th president. He has this phenomenal quote, which kept me going for all the years that I was struggling like, Oh right. If persistence is good enough for the president of the United States. Then it’s good enough for me.
I’m in the game to make a contribution to the world.
Tanner:
Yeah. And I completely agree with that because you know, people become successful when their backs up against the wall and failure is not an option. So if that passion isn’t there, it’s just so easy to say, Oh man, this is too hard. I’m done. I’ll go try something else. So going back to the beginning, when you started your business you just bootstrapped it, right? You didn’t take on any investors.
Calvin:
I didn’t, no. No, I’ve seen that game play out so many times. And I mean, sometimes I feel like it works out really well. I was about to say sometimes it works out really well. I’m honestly not sure about that. I’m not honestly sure that that’s even true come to think of it. But the most often thing that happens is that you have some sort of exit, right? An acquisition typically where the company that buys you, they’re not really interested in the product. They don’t love the product as much as you and your team does. They don’t love all of the customers as much as you do, and maybe they’re just hiring and buying you for the team. Or for the experience or for the IP, or to shut the product down or something like that, which I think is a tragedy for everyone and all involved.
Right. Everyone, like so many people have been giving their, their life force to create this product and build it and love it. And you know, it’s their baby. And then we’re just like, ah, let’s just trash it or milk it for cash or whatever. And just to me, it’s like, I am not in this game for the money. I’m in the game to make a contribution to the world. And, you know, in the process I grow and in the process, everybody grows and everybody gets more mature in the process and enlightened. I don’t know, I didn’t need the money and I still don’t need the money. And I’m not sure what I’d use, spend the money on if I had it. I got cash in the bank, but so it’s not about that for me, it’s about like, what is the best path to making the impact? And like, even sometimes the companies that go that stay independent and go IPO, usually something changes there. Now they have to chase the quarterly reporting. And it’s just an incessant drive for growth. It changes the culture and the meaning. So, yeah, bootstrapped, it’s my thing. We’re beholden to our customers and to my vision and the team obviously. But that’s what matters, right? We’re not beholden to any investors that don’t really care.
Tanner:
Yeah. And I think that’s the beautiful thing about bootstrapping is that you’re in control of the vision and that never changes. Right? You don’t have these outside investors calling any shots. You aren’t trying to satisfy your shareholders. It’s not just about money, right? And the second you take on a VC investor or go public, it is about money and that completely changes everything. And that would change everything at every level of the company. You know, like the products that you’re selling, the way you monetize your products or your platforms, all of that changes the second you bring in a capital investor. So I agree with you. And I think it’s awesome that’s the reason why you boot strapped. I know some people might just think, Oh yeah, I just did it on my that’s what something to boast about. But for you it’s, you didn’t want that vision affected. And so I truly commend you for that. I think that’s amazing.
Calvin:
Yeah. To me, the responsibility that I have to my, to our customers is ranked really high and yeah, not wanting some other voice that has a different interest to, to be able to pollute it. It’s important.
I don’t hire someone that I’m not excited about.
Tanner:
So going back to the beginning, when it was just you, how long was it just you and who was the first person you brought on board?
Calvin:
Yeah, it was just me for, for a couple of years. I think the first person I brought on, and we ended up moving to India for a year, my wife and I. While I was out there, I got involved in some Rubian Rails. So, you know, software community in Bangalore. And so, I hired one of the guys there as a developer. And I think that was, my second hire was another engineer also in India after I’d moved back to New York. I forget at some point I had like a someone helping out with support tickets. And so the support was the next area that I hired for. I was really struggling with hiring for a long time. It’s still challenging. It’s still something that we talk about at the company very, very regularly.
I’ve gotten a lot better at it, but there’s so much to learn still. We’ve just been through, we have some phenomenal people on the team now who’ve been there. Some who have been there for several years, four or five years, I forgot how long Deanna’s has been here. She’s the one that has been here the longest, a couple of years and then some. This year, we hired aggressively and to build out marketing people and some new businesses and consultants and others, and none of it worked out. So that was really expensive. It was a very expensive learning process. So now I’m like back to, just realizing how.
One of my challenges is that I’m very, like, I know exactly when I get into stuff. I know exactly what, I know where I want to go. And even if it’s kind of unclear what the vision is, I’ll get there. Because I have a clear enough sense and I want to start working and then I’ll just keep digging in there and I’ll get there and I’ll deliver the result. Right. And I’ll figure out what that process is. And I enjoy doing that. I can’t do it upfront, but I can do it every day, every step of the way. And then I’ll finagle my way to the result.
Another thing about me is like, I think every single function that there is within the company I can do personally. Whether it’s editing video, or doing photography, or answering support tickets, or writing the code or doing marketing, writing copy, like, you know, doing Photoshop, all of these things. I can do all of these things. I shouldn’t be doing them obviously. And not all of them would be aligned with my strengths. Wouldn’t be a good use of my skillset, but, but I can. Most other people are not like that. So that’s been a learning curve for me to find out, Oh, right. Like people have more boxy. People are more like, I’m this shape and all right. So we need to find a like, or rather like, here’s the shape of the hole that I have in the company. Right. And I’d be like, I can step in there and do that. I’ll just take some courses and learn it and figure it out. But no, I need to figure out, how do I find a person that has that shape for that matches that role right now, in terms of skills and personality and attitude and all the other things that go into that and figure out how to assess that ahead of time? Are they going to be a match? And like, is that going to work? It’s been challenging, it’s a kind of challenge that you have to figure out as an entrepreneur. As a business owner, there’s just no other options.
Tanner:
Right. And yeah, I mean, hiring someone for a position is always a risk. Right? And it’s going to be impossible to always identify if they’re going to be a good fit or not.
Calvin:
Yeah. Yeah. And what I’ve done so many times, I’m embarrassed to say it is I’ve hired someone. And then I buy fully into people. I love them. I don’t hire someone that I’m not excited about. And then like we try and then like three weeks into it, I was like, yeah, what we hired you to do is not working, but I really like you and I see what you’re good at. So, maybe we can like try to kind of engineer a position for you. That never works out. It never, ever works out. I was like, stop doing that. It’s just so stupid, but I really liked them. And I really want to keep them around. And I really want to find it. I want people to be in their sweet spot to do the work that they’re absolutely the best in the world for.
I just happen to forget if that’s a thing that the company actually needs. And if it’s a thing the company needs right now. And I forget to think, do we have someone on the team who is responsible for and is able to help hold them accountable and help them get super clear on what does success look like? What are the expectations? What are the deliverables? And check up and make sure that they happen. Because that’s not me, I’m terrible at that. I’m like, Oh, great idea and then I forget. And then, so, you know, if we don’t have that infrastructure in place and it’s really running like clockwork, then yeah -it’s not gonna work. Dammit. It’s been fun to learn.
We’re inventing it as we go along.
Tanner:
Yeah. And, you know, I think a lot of that stuff just comes down to having systems and processes in place, which is a beast in itself, but it kind of helps guide people along in their respective positions
Calvin:
For sure. Right. Systems and processes in place, yes. And systems and processes to make sure people are following those systems and processes. It’s not enough to just have it written down if nobody’s actually doing it. But also what I like to do is, I like to build new stuff and to build, create new things with people. And so there are no processes there. We’re inventing it as we go along. It’s a very special, so I can do either, I’m best at the creative thing, but I can also do the other thing. But it’s a very special kind of person that is able to do that. Creating the systems based on a vision. And like, here’s where we are. Here’s the vision, here’s what I’m going for. Right? Vision-like and then, okay, let’s blast the path there. I can see what it looks like when it’s done, I can see a strategy to get there, but like getting it all the way down to making it operational is like, Oh that’s painful. I can do it, but I it’s painful.
Tanner:
Oh yeah. I mean, and it’s painful, documenting anything like that. No one wants to do that.
Cool. So, you know, starting a SAS businesses of course, really difficult to do. And a lot of entrepreneurs feel that they need access to venture capital in order to be successful. What’s some advice you could give to anyone listening when it comes to bootstrapping your idea and bringing it to market?
Calvin:
Yeah. I mean, you don’t need venture capital. If you’re doing something as super capital intensive, sure. Especially with software, you absolutely can do something. If you have a little bit of cash. What I did was I financed this by selling my own courses. Doing my own courses and coaching programs to pay rent, and then I could work on the product. And so that’s a much, there’s so many better ways to get money for building, to finance your company than venture capital. Like equity is the most expensive way you can possibly finance your business. Credit cards, better. Debt of any sword, better. Loaining money from family and friends, better. Make money, work, make money and then, and then that’s better too. Right? It forces you to be really clear on the value. Not waste money willfully.
I mean, there’s no question the amount of money that I wasted this year on these, you know, failed projects and failed hires and so on, is staggering. And there’s no way I would have wasted all that money if I didn’t have it. Like, you know, so it’s a good thing that we’re profitable enough that we can waste a ton of money, it’s obviously sad to waste money and, you know, I’ve learned from it and it is what it is. At the end of the day, it’s just money, but it is yeah, when you don’t have the cash, you are forced to be more creative, more innovative. So I’m a huge fan of that. I think, yeah.
This idea that you need to start by getting funding. The other thing about that is, raising funds is its own skillset, right? It’s its own whole project. It’s going to consume your life for like six months. And that’s six months where you’re not building your product. You’re not selling it. You’re not talking to your customers. You’re not like you’re not building your business during that time. And so for me, it’s always been, I could work on that skill set, but it doesn’t interest me. It doesn’t excite me. And I don’t really see why I would do that versus creating something that has value to people and share it with them.
Tanner:
Yeah. You know, I think it’s mostly because of the Silicon Valley culture. Like everyone thinks that they need to get VC funding in order to be successful. In reality, all these high tech companies in Silicon Valley, they just throw money in fire and they don’t care about their spending and they don’t ever get profitable.
Successful, to me, was like a curse word.
Calvin:
Right. It’s also very important to get clear with yourself. What is success for you? I used to hate that word, successful to me was like a curse word. It was basically, what it sounded was like, are you worthy of being a human being or not? Are you successful? Like, if you’re not successful, whatever the hell that means then I’m not interested in you. Like, I don’t care about you. That was how it sounded. Right? And someone redefined it in my head to be: successful just means that you achieved what you set out to. You say, I’m going to do this. I’m going to accomplish this. And you do it. You are by definition successful. And it’s so important to find out what success is for you, right? Like there are so many very, very wealthy people who are unhappy.
A friend of mine Kazim, he lives in Phoenix, Arizona, Scottsdale. His dad is from Iran. He has a Persian rug store in Phoenix, Arizona. And when he was younger, Kazim would go with him out to these massive mansions from new super wealthy people, hundreds of millions of dollars, to deliver these Persian rugs. And he noticed that these super rich people were sitting inside of the giant houses, all alone, watching TV, bored, lonely, sad. Sorry, I have something in my throat, but what’s the point, right? What is the point? What does success for you. For me, it’s like success is the freedom to live my purpose, freedom to work with people that I love working with and be around people that I love being with freedom to not be tied down. If I want to go away for, for a month, I can go away for a month and things are going to be fine. Freedom to build real relationships with the people in my life, whether it’s at work like real loving.
Like we say, we tell each other on a regular basis, that we love each other. It’s not a forced thing. It just happens naturally. As we’re talking, he’s like, Hey, I love you. I really love you. And having those kinds of relationships, like really genuine honest relationships where you can be emotionally vulnerable with each other all around and in my life, that’s something that that’s success to me. Right.
Success not being beholden to anyone and being able to speak my mind freely and, and yeah. And follow my creative passion, my creative urges. I had a couple of years ago, I had a period where I got really deep into music. I’ve always been a pianist, jazz pianist. Then I started singing and I learned songwriting and I started producing, music production and put out some songs. And phenomenal to be able to do that, thanks to, you know, having a business and not having any investors or anything like that. I mean, that’s a phenomenal thing, skill, to pick up and midlife and, you know, most people wouldn’t have the time or luxury to do that, but I could,
Tanner:
You know, I think that’s probably the best explanation of success that I’ve ever heard. And I really liked that. I think it was a quote that you just shared about success is saying you’re going to go out and do something and you do it. It’s really about like, just setting a goal and achieving your goal. So achieving a goal, it means you’re successful. And I think that’s a good way to put it because success, like you said, is just so subjective. It means, something entirely different to everyone.
Calvin:
Yeah. And if you’re chasing other people’s version of success, you’re never going to be happy. It’s a Mirage. I got an email from someone 10 years ago or something. He was doing, it was shortly after the iPhone and mobile social gaming was super hot. And he and his two or three friends created this mobile social gaming company, and they were very successful and they’d just gotten an acquisition offer for $300 million. And he emailed me because he’d found my website and my blog and it had resonated with him. And he was like, I feel more depressed than ever in my life because my whole life I’ve been chasing this dream of that, you know, a hundred million dollar exit and that like beach lifestyle. And like all of that elution right. And now that it’s within reach, they hadn’t sold the company, but they’d gotten the firm offer. Now that it was within reach, he realized it wouldn’t make him happy. It wouldn’t make him mad at all. And then he was like, dammit I’m not happy now. The thing I always thought was gonna make me happy doesn’t do a thing for me and I’m not only unhappy, I’m also out of a strategy to become happy.
Which is a great place to be. I love it when people get to that place. I really love it when they get to a crisis of meaning. But it’s, I mean, that’s the dream, that’s the bill of goods that we’ve been sold. It’s a crock of shit, it’s just a lie, right? Like that’s not where happiness comes from. Happiness is not a destination. Happiness is today. It’s right now, it’s in the moment, it’s doing what you’re born to do right now. My purpose in this moment is to have this conversation with you. The only thing that matters in my life, is just be fully engaged here, fully present with you. That’s all, that’s all that matters, right?
As Alan Watts famously said, it’s all retch and no vomit.
Tanner:
Yeah. You know, I think it’s all about living in the moment. Living in the present. I think we often live in the future a little bit too much with some of the goals that we set for ourselves. But at the end of the day, it’s all about the chase. Chasing the prize, it’s about the journey to success. And I think that’s what we need to be truly embracing. Not what’s at the end of the road, right?
Calvin:
Yeah, absolutely. I have a dog, you have a dog, right?
Tanner:
Yeah, I have two dogs.
Calvin:
Right. Great. I think the official term for it is the seeking system, but it’s so obvious with a dog, like you throw a toy and they run after it and then they get the toy and then they’re like Oh, eh. Right? It’s the heart, it’s the chase that counts. That’s what excites them. Like once they have it’s like, eh, whatever. And it’s more extreme for dogs, but in some ways it’s the same for us. Right? It’s the process. It’s the journey, it’s the everyday, it’s the moment. That’s what matters. That’s what makes you happy. And so often we sacrifice the moment for some thing in the future. Right? And so, as Alan Watts famously said, it’s all retch and no vomit.
We just keep, you know, as parents too, we sacrifice ourselves for our children so that they can have a good life, so that they can grow up and sacrifice themselves for their children, so they can have, like who’s ever going to live life now? Like how about modeling for our kids, that they’re not the most important thing in your life, sorry, but they’re not. Model for them how to live a full and happy life so that they get to copy that, because they don’t do what you tell them. Right? They do what they learn from how you, how you are and what you do. So show them how to do that. Prioritize themselves. That’s what I want for my kids. I wanted them to prioritize themselves. I want them to be create happiness for themselves.
Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Tanner:
That’s awesome. I love that. And speaking about success, what would you attribute your success to?
Calvin:
Persistence. I’m so in love. So I was born with a different name. I was born Lars and I took the name Calvin because of Calvin Coolidge. Because of the president, because of his quotes.
Tanner:
Oh, wow. That’s really interesting.
Calvin:
Yeah. I was like that. I was, you know. He has this quote saying nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent or not, nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not. Unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not. The world is full of educated derelicts, persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
The fact that I kept going, there’s something in me. For me, like you mentioned before that you had this, should I be an entrepreneur? Should I not be an entrepreneur? For me, that was never a question. Like I knew that I had to succeed as an entrepreneur or I would go kill myself. Like there’s no other options for me. At one point I was really struggling. My parents were like, we had had our two kids and things were not good and I put a stake in the ground and said, I’m not selling another hour of my time for money. I’m going to figure out this product thing. Right. So similar kind of thing. No sleeping pill anymore. No sucking at the teat or anything of that, like, I’m going to do it now.
My parents panicked, my wife panicked. They were like, Oh, well, you got to provide for your family and stuff. And so they tried to convince me, which I did by the way, but they were scared that I wouldn’t. They tried to convince me why don’t you take a job with Microsoft for just like three years, just to make sure that you’re providing for your family? My wife was completely on board, which is, we’re no longer married, with their idea with the Microsoft idea. But I felt so hurt. I felt so hurt and misunderstood by it. And I don’t blame them. I don’t blame any of them for it. But for me it was like, don’t, like three years? Are you kidding me? That’s a long time. Right. And then this was after my, I’m here to do spiritual entrepreneurship. I’m like Microsoft, like of all companies in the world? Like you have no idea who I am. You really have no clue who I am. Because like I remember reading a book about branding back in the day called a New Brand World. And it had a story about how his firm was hired by Microsoft to do branding for him, for them. And they had to decline after doing their research because they were like, branding is about exposing the soul of a company to the world and Microsoft doesn’t have a soul. I’m sorry, we can’t work with you guys. That was literally in that book. And that’s how I’ve always kind of seen the company. So I was like, guys, you are, you don’t have any clue. So I was like, I’m going to keep going. I’ve got to make this work. I did.
Keep serving your customers, keep improving the product based on your vision and what you hear from your customers.
Tanner:
So Calvin, what are your secrets to scale?
Calvin:
Honestly, same kind of thing. Like, so I got into this internet marketing world very early in 2008 and you know, digital marketing, all that stuff. And then I got really burned out on it because I saw so much lack of integrity, so much dishonesty and deceitfulness. And I was like, I will have no part of this. Integrity is my non-negotiable. So I opted out of that entire world and just focused on product and customer service for, you know, we’re now 11 years and change into the company’s history. And so it’s just been one slow and steady growth. There’s no hockey stick. There’s no breakout moment.
I did, last year, get back into digital marketing. And I was like, let me do that. Let me try to invest in like really growing this, try to master paid and try to master, you know, referrals, try to master all the shit. I’m now a year and a half into it. Same shit. I’m just, you know, I’m just poor. I’m just throwing a lot of money at it. I think one of my mistakes has been trying to do things through people. And so where I’m at now is like, okay, I need to do actually do this. And so just really focusing on what needs to happen for growth. Sometimes I’m still like, I still want to do it, but like the answer to your question is just persistence again. Right? Just keep freaking at it, make the best product I know how to make and offer the best customer service I know how to do.
We’re really obsessed with being real with people. I hate it when I reach out to some company’s customer service and I feel like I’m talking to a robot or like I am talking to a robot, that’s even worse. Give me a human being relate to me as a human being. Right. Feel me. Like I’m here, I’m not being unreasonable, I’m just asking for a direct and honest answer. And if you’re like, Oh I’m to be very polite and I am at customer service rep, I’m like drop the act and let’s just talk, you know, human to human. So that’s how we approach that. And I’m so passionate about good service, like really good service, like where you come away feeling a little happier and lighter. Because you just had a good connection, you had actual connection with the human being on the other side that seemed to care for you.
Tanner:
Yeah. Which never happens.
Calvin:
Right. So, and I’m super lucky to have a team that’s totally on board with that. That goes over and above when it comes to serving our customers. So I mean, if anything, that is my secret to scale. And it’s just keep doing that. Keep serving your customers, keep improving the product based on your vision and what you hear from your customers. And I keep using the product myself. So, you know, every time I do, I’m like, Hey, what is this thing? I make it a little bit better every day. Just a little bit, incrementally. So maybe I should just stick with that formula honestly. But yeah, so that’s my secret.
Tanner:
Yeah. And you know, it’s interesting. Everyone has their own answer to that question, but the reality is there aren’t any secrets to scale, right? It’s just hard work, getting your hands dirty and doing everything in your power to constantly build on and improve everything about your business.
What’s a good way for anyone listening to get in contact with you
Calvin:
Go to my personal website, calvincorreli.com. The software is Simplero, simplero.com.
Tanner:
Cool. Sounds good. We’ll make sure we link that up in the description. Anyways, I really appreciate it, Calvin. Thanks for joining me.
Calvin:
Thanks Tanner. Great to be with you. Thank you.